Can the community adhere to rules admins have trouble following?
Let’s face it–not a lot of people liked our stories yesterday that focused on The Sonic Stadium and its administrators for needlessly banning discussion of a major story one of our editors broke. Many found the coverage tantamount to unnecessary exposure of forum drama, and that “locked topics” have no place here. But in one or two of the comments, there were calls to question purported hypocrisy at the Stadium, comparing the ideals its webmaster, Svend Joscelyne, and the TSS staff hold, versus what it practices.
What we didn’t report yesterday was that very shortly after TSS staff performed the actions that resulted in our stories, Joscelyne put out a call on the Sonic Stadium forums to cut the drama.
Under the guise of a new year’s resolution for the community, Joscelyne said in a statement that Sonic Stadium forumers need to exude more positive vibes. Branding the initative as “No Drama ’09,” Joscelyne cites several bouts of community fighting as things that need to change:
We all need to be more positive. Charles Hamilton, an up and coming rapper, has made a few albums dedicated to Sonic the Hedgehog. Regardless of the fact that it’s rap, or even whether you like it or not, surely that is something to be respected, for it is nonetheless a positive spin on the Sonic franchise. While people like Charles has fun by creating homages to Sonic, there are people in this forum that would rather be negative about everything to the point where they will negate the positive work Charles is doing. I’m not simply talking about Hamilton now, I’m referring to people who try to make things and create out of their fandom for the Sonic franchise.
Is it any wonder that many Sonic fans don’t actually want to post here anymore? And the ones that don’t are all cool guys – Tweaker, T-Bird, bcdcdude – we have some awesome posters here, but it’s very hard for anyone to post here and feel comfortable when there are people just beating everything down all the time. Voicing opinions is fine – there can be a topic based on a particular item of merchandise and someone can go “Ah man that looks so cheesy, lol! That’s an awesome find, but it looks like Sonic is melting or something XD!” but someone then turning the topic into a grim outlook of why there’s no merchandise, or why it’s all got to be classic merchandise these days, or why 4Kids having the merch license is crap, really kinda kills the mood.
So I want you all to do me a favour. Shut up for a week, play some Sonic games. Take some time off from this forum and the Internet in general. Remember to yourself why you became a Sonic fan in the first place, and apply that here. I don’t want any more nerd rage taking place in this forum. I don’t want any classic vs modern fanboy arguments. I don’t want people telling others they are wrong for liking Sonic 06, or that preferring the Mega Drive games is “backwards thinking”. I don’t want any of it. I want people to be positive, and stay positive.
This isn’t quite idealist ranting, however–it is now, apparently, a mandate on the Sonic Stadium forum. Immediately following this statement was a condensed version that promised punishment for any significant deviation from this philosophy:
P.S. Because there are going to be people who think that the passage above was too gay and wanky enough for them to ignore, here’s the TL;DR version for all you arseholes out there: Don’t think you can get away by ignoring this topic. Anyone causing stupid arguments will be punished. Whether you have read this or not.
The initiative is an exciting one, and if it works, not only could it serve as a model for other community forums to follow, it could vastly change the way the Sonic fan community functions, and how it’s perceived both inside and out. Thus far, many Stadium forumers are in support of this new direction.
So, hours later, why would the same webmaster who penned such promise muck it up by setting a poor example on the front page of his website?
It was Joscelyne who wrote the potential flamebait drama, seen as the first item by all who visited the Stadium front page for most of yesterday, and thus far today, as of the time of this article’s publication. The article mocks the two stories we published yesterday about the Sonic Stadium and some members of its staff.
Whether the mockery is necessary or deserved could get lost in a bigger issue: Should Sonic Stadium forumers be obliged to abide by a new policy and a new direction led by a webmaster who may not be able to follow it himself? If TSS top brass can’t set the example, does the direction even have a chance of working?
It already has a couple people criticizing Joscelyne–not because they didn’t feel the potshot was justified, but because they expect better from him. Interestingly enough, this may continue to spur the drama that Joscelyne says he’s trying to avoid. Here’s what Hawkz said in part on the matter on a growing thread that not only takes to task our coverage from yesterday, but also criticizes the TSS response:
Because of the respect and admiration I hold for this website and it’s founder; it pains and upsets the living hell out of me to see the founder of this website stoop so low as to retaliate in such a deplorable way considering what he has done for the community, he is seen as a mature (if not slightly egotisical) figure head within the community. Someone who actually does shit instead of sitting there and talking about it. You should have known not to let your temper get out like that mate, he went for the heart (insulted your website and staff) and you took the bait hardcore. So much so that you felt compelled to go the punks own website and insult him there. I guess I am disappointed most because I expected better from you dude. You are bigger and smarter than that.
(9:30AM EDIT: The thread where this comment originally surfaced, like yesterday’s, has also been moderated out of existence by Sonic Stadium forum management. SSMB head Roarey Raccoon tells TSSZ News that his rationale for shutting the thread is in similar vein of attempts to curb discussion on Sonic Unleashed reviews last month.)
We want to know what you think. If “No Drama” is to be successful at the Sonic Stadium and spread throughout the community, does change have to begin at the top, or should it start from regular community members? Let us know via the comments system.
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Wasn’t the reason they banned discussion at the request of the guy who wrote the blog, and as such they were kind enough to do his request?
I don’t see why that puts them in bad light regardless of the articles content.
What I think is: If you really feel so justified and self-righteous, then why do you need to keep doing this? If you really are, then how about SHOWING that you’re a big man by stepping down and dropping this. Try to think about something other than your own ego. For example – the everyday fans who would just like to return to having fun at their respective forums (and god help anyone who attends both!) but are unable to because of this petty cloud hanging over both places detracting attention from the things that really matter. Just a thought.
Don’t you get it that your bloody site will go nowhere if all you do is post your whining about how other sites hate you, Oliver? As someone commented on one of your other BS stories, professional journalists never let themselves become the story. However your sad devotion to bitching about your enemies will only make YOU the laughing stock of the Sonic community. Rest assured, it won’t be long until TSSZ withers away like it once did, because you Oliver are too much of a egotisical dumbass to remain a credible and popular figurehead of the Sonic community.
Most people probably don’t know who the hell I am and if that’s the case then I can only be satisfied with it. I’ve worked my ass off on SSMB for over 4 years now out of my own time. I’ve never asked for thanks for this either, all I’ve wanted was to make a forum which people enjoy posting in and to try and make something as massive and alienating as such a large community still feel like home. Then I see an obnoxious, fucking little cum stain like you having a go at staff.
I don’t know if you have even the slightest clue about running a large community or not, I don’t know if you’re too inexperienced to know how to handle large communities or if you’re just deliberately being a cock on that issue, but either way you’re entirely full of shit. Have your little thwacking girl-fights with svend and co if you like, but keep moderators out of it. I’d like to see mods, who never get given anything material for the work they do, be able to continue doing their jobs in peace, with only the occasional pressures from the SSMB community being their problem.
The fact that you’ve repeatedly made an issue over their actions, despite the fact that as head admin I told them to fucking do it, makes you an utter little shite. If you want to make out that SSMB is run like crap, despite the fact that it’s as undeniably popular as it is, with many satisfied users and hardly any spam whatsoever, then you place the blame on me. I’m in charge of that forum, I say what goes and what doesn’t. If you want to dick around with someone then do it to someone who is at least partially responsible for whatever fabrications you come up with. That way it will at least begin to resemble fairness, you crock of shit.
I’m officially labeling TSS and it’s forum as a No Click Zone!
No wonder Sonic Retro is so strict, it prevents most disasters like this.
There is no disaster, it’s all gone. You’re simply stupid.
There will always be drama of some sort, but you have to deal with it the right way:
Debate is absolutely fine as long as no direct insults are thrown at people. Simple. You guys shold be able argue, debate, disagree, compare ideas, and everything as long as youdon’t turn these disagreements into personal disrespect. That’s why I like GameFAQs. You can go there and debate without fear of moderation unless you throw a clearly direct intsult or a threat. So really, I want to know what more is there to this e-drama? Because all of the comotion I’ve seen thus far is over petty stuff.
@DoctorEggman
There is no real cause for the drama on the SSMB end. Only the insult crap was destroyed and when the Unleashed topics were getting rediculous they were removed. Simple as that, it was damage control. The reason you see the drama as petty is because that’s what’s being reported here. There is no drama on SSMB, there was no member backlash about us locking/deleting topics either, all the drama about it has been on TSSZ. There’s only been one topic about TSSZ on the SSMB and I deleted it before people could start a shitstorm. For the rest of the forum it’s peaceful business as usual, a few arguments and debates here and there like any other community. The problem is, a lot of people are seeing these articles and they aren’t members of SSMB, they don’t frequent there, so you get complete garbage being said by people who don’t have the faintest clue as to what the hell they’re talking about.
@Roarey:
Thanks for shedding a little more light on this. But what do you mean by “getting ridiculous”, thus giving you a reason to delete topics?
@Roarey Raccoon:
You’re so mature. If you’re going to be the head of anything, learn some manners, even when manners aren’t given back to you in return.
I’ve been a moderator, so I know how frustrating it is. People criticize everything you do, and then never really contribute anything towards solving the problems. I don’t go to SSMB, so I choose to not have a reaction really.
That said, I think Tristan is better spoken when disscussing these things than the people criticizing him are. I have no idea who’s right. I go to Sonic sites for news on games and media, not pointless pessimism, bickering and childish swearing. Which I see all over Sonic sites, and it’s annoying. Political comparisons that are inept and pointless, random swearing…whatever.
Crazee is right! Quit that pointless TSSZ vs. TSS War thingy, its idiotic! I come here for news aswell and not to read about just another flamewar, just drink a beer and be quiet!
God damn this is stupid, could you post actual fucking news kplz? Nothing interesting has happened, this just annoying. These articles are laughable and shouldn’t be considered news.
I’ve been a moderator as well, but people don’t criticize me for making good deletion/lockage decisions. That’s just my experience. If they felt I was unjust, I’d take it up with them like mature folk in a private discussion and iron things out peacefully, like I’ve done with other people outside of moderator duties.
It’s a little hard to handle things in private when someone writes their complains about your moderation duties didn’t end up on a news site, DoctorEggman.
writes their complaints about your moderation duties on a news site*
Proof reading is fun!
90% of your forum’s population are gamecube raised children that throw a passive aggressive fit when someone disagrees with them and go nuts when a drama bomb is dropped such as Sonic Unleashed reviews and bloggate.
You have to be logged in to even view the forum, no big surprise why.
http://www.sonicstadium.org/board/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=96
@serpx
What do you know of it? I work hours for absolutely free, for years, I’ll talk however the fuck I please. Being rude or polite is not a one-sided thing. You’re being rude, pretentious and patronising in your comment. The only difference is you didn’t write a swear word, and I’d have hoped we’d have moved on since primary school in that respect. Crazee proves otherwise, unfortunately. I’ve also run SSMB for nearly 5 years, I’d have been gone long ago if saying “fuck” prevented me from being good at it. God what a bloody concept.
@DoctorEggman
Well a ton of flaming basically, people were getting very riled indeed and nobody needs to feel like that over what other people are saying about a video game. I and the rest of the staff decided that it was getting way out of hand and did something about it. It didn’t cause arguments between members and staff on the forum or anything so it went about as smoothly as it could in this fandom.
The staff at SSMB hardly ever get criticized either, it’s been a while since someone had to be banned and bans in general have been far fewer than they were a few years ago. Staff aren’t regularly harassed because they are impeccably polite for the most part; there’s only me really who is more aggressive on the forums. I’m not feeling angry IRL, it’s a habit I picked up during 2005/6 when there was a lot of shit to deal with. It works anyway.
What I find is that a lot of people who have been staff at websites have told me how to do what I do or described what their position is like. Every community is different and the larger the community the more complex things become unless you have a system that works. SSMB has a system that works and we rarely have any problems. The Unleashed drama is the first thing in ages in which we’ve actually had to start threatening harsh punishments. It’s not a nice thing to do but it’s not a country it’s a message board, which people use for free. It’s easy as hell to pass judegement on a large and successful place (perhaps the most successful sonic site on the internet no less), especially when you’re not even a member there like some of the commenters. There’s even more of a drive to think something is shit the more popular it is, because nobody likes a fat cat.
Truth is, all this drama is the result of a fictional portrayal of a forum as a certain few attempt to gain attention by riding in the slipstream of someone elses problems.
@Dr.Eggfang
Thanks for the statistic you just pulled out of your arse. You’re describing most of the internet there. Everything you say is non sequitur tripe.
Oh and yes, this TSS v TSSZ stuff is indeed idiotic. I’m not really arsed about it other than the fact that very good moderators are being slagged off for decisisions they didn’t make.
I really don’t see how you can truly “lead” anything, Roarey. It shows on how your board has been going down the drains lately, and with this new little ordeal, I wouldn’t be surprised if it got worse in the longrun.
@serpx
How would you define such a circumstance as ‘going downhill’? It hasn’t been getting worse at all and it’s actually one of the most spam-free environments I’ve seen. The only blight has been Unleashed, which has affected most sites in the community that are popular enough to have large userbases. You are entirely unaware of the circumstances, so don’t lecture me about my ability to lead anything. Who are you anyway? You don’t know me and I certainly don’t know you.
I’m of the opinion that if “No Drama 09″ has any shot at working, then tssz and Sonic Stadium both need to agree to shut the fuck up and not antagonize each other anymore. Regardless of the Andac article itself, tssz writing an article about discussion of it being closed on Sonic Stadium was weird and unnecessary, given the “I’M GONNA GET BACK AT YOU” nature of it. The Stadium article that followed was butt-fucking retarded. And this article right here is even MORE buttfucking retarded.
No Drama 09 is a great idea and needs to spread throughout the entire fandom, ESPECIALLY after the shitstorm that was Unleashed’s release. And this shit right here is killing it in the womb. I hope to God this doesn’t go any further than this.
@Roarey:
Okay, so it all boils down to iinsults, AKA flaming? Really, those things are against the rules to begin with, so why can’t you just suspend people who go breaking those rules?
That way mature people can still discuss their thoughts on the matter.
And I see what you mean about TSSZ making things sound worse than they are. I think all news sources do that.
I hate to get into this argument, but I have to say the following in a mature manner:
Roarey, have you realized that you have actually proved Oliver’s point? I’ve noticed that Oliver has hardly been rude, or has been cursing anyone at all.
And who’s the one being insulting and is throwing curse words all over the place, going completely against the No Drama policy if SSMB?
I’m sorry, but you are only hurting not only your reputation, but your site’s reputation as well. As you yourself said, you are in charge of the SSMB, thus you are representing it. If I were to judge the forum solely by your imaturity, I’d stay far away from it.
Luckily I’m not such a person, as I myself have an account there. And the general users there can be very friendly, and I highly respect them.
It is no doubt best if you all (Roarey, Oliver, and all the other people involved) would end this discussion for good. It’s only going to go further downhill from here.
As fellow commenters have said, these sites are for news, not for arguing over some news story that the Sega/Sony employee (forgot the name) posted when he shouldn’t of.
I’m grateful he gave us the info, as it is always interesting to leaner of a game’s origins, good or bad.
I just want everyone to make peace, is that so hard to do?
That’ll be all, and I myself apologize if I came out as offensive when I wasn’t trying to.
Now make nice you all!
Sorry, typo:
“I’m grateful he gave us the info, as it is always interesting to LEARN of a game’s origins, good or bad.”
Escuse me.
I’m not too fond of TSS’ “go die in a fire” attitudes, either. Seems a bit too hateful, like something a 12-year-old would say. I prefer more proffessional mannerisms. Humor is fine, but death wishes? Tsk.
I think you flunkies here need to grow a set of balls if you’re still crying to mommy that someone sweared or didn’t treat you with enough respect, hahaha!
I quite enjoy Rocky’s cursing and harshness (towards other stupidity of course), actually.
*others stupidity
my bad
@DoctorEggman
We did suspend people, but haha, we’re talking about a lot of people going off-topic and flaming here, practically everyone got pissed and I didn’t think suspending a massive chunk of our regulars for being passionate was a good idea. Anger dies down and you give it the chance to do that by removing yourself from what’s making you angry. So denying discussion on the subject for a short time and keeping an eye on it afterwards helped chill things out. I was pissed off myself earlier in this thread as you can see, and I swear all over the place when I’m pissed off. So I had a chat with Tristan in private and didn’t look here for a bit and now I don’t really give a monkeys about the whole thing. Notice how I’ve not shat on you at any point either, because you’re basically the only one in the thread who hasn’t been a pretentious tit trying to tell me what acceptable behaviour is, as if at 22 I wouldn’t bloody know. Lawl. Anyway, that should answer your questions, I’m done here now, so if there’s anything else you want then email me or something (roarey[at]gmail.com).
RAWR DRAMA DRAMA COME ON EVERYONE SPREAD AS MUCH DRAMA AS YOU CAN.
They’re trying to save the fanbase, but it won’t work. They did this to themselves. We’ll fight each other and snap at each other’s throats all night long <3 And the real winners are people like me, ready to sink this ship of terrible games and their irrational fans.
LATER. MUCH DRAMA TO CAUSE.