IGN Mocks Angered Sonic Fans in Podcast
Tristan Oliver | March 6, 2009
Attempts to Quell Bias Accusations
IGN staff are fighting back against the Sonic fanbase.
On the heels of a poor review for Sonic and the Black Knight and further accusations and questions on whether staff played the game enough to write that review, IGN’s Matt Casamassina, joined by fellow staffers Daemon Hatfield, Craig Harris and Mark Bozon defended their opinion in a podcast released yesterday…by mocking those making the accusations.
You can take a listen for yourself below. The component of the podcast is dedicated to discussion regarding SBK. They start off by making fun of an angry letter they received regarding the 3.9 score given by Casamassina, and quickly reference the situation regarding Hilary Goldstein, when we uncovered evidence that suggested he did not finish half of Sonic Unleashed in preparation for his equally poor review.
The team supports Goldstein and his words, saying he played a debug copy of Unleashed prior to his review, before moving on to the final edition. It is unclear whether his gameplay on the final edition had any impact on that review.
It’s added in the podcast shortly after Goldstein’s review is mentioned, “Fact checking is not important.”
Take note, however, at something said around 2:44, when the team is criticizing SBK for not having any classic Sonic loops. One of the staffers noted he didn’t see anything, and, quote, “I was there for the whole two hour play period.”
If nothing else, those words may confirm that IGN staff only spent two hours on the game.
The team quickly backtracks and adds that the game, in their view, was only two hours long, “outside of extra missions at the end.”
That is the point of contention. Our previous story regarding Casamassina’s IGN review brought into public knowledge the fact that Sonic and the Black Knight fools gamers with a fake ending, only to have quests continue with characters such as Knuckles and Shadow toward the game’s actual ending. If those quests are what IGN refers to as the “extra missions,” it may only infuriate some in Sonic fandom even more.
There is no direct mention in this podcast regarding the mechanics of the single-player mode beyond Sonic.
You’ll also hear continued comparisons between SBK and the classic Sonic franchise in the clip below. After you listen, we want to know what you think of these crass comments by sounding off below.
Filed Under Hot Topics, Sonic Scene
man i still cant watch the videos i just hate school -_- for banning the videos
Your a bunch of crap IGN
Sonic and the Black Knight wasn’t that great in my opinion, but IGN still annoy me in general. Hooray for corrupted, un-entertaining review websites! Try games for yourselves these days, don’t listen to online reviewers.
OMG can’t people stop comparing next-gen sonic games to classic sonic games. we all know they are nothing like the classics think of better reasons for a bad review. also racer ?????? what the hell sonic isn’t a racer its more of a platformer that revolves around speed
If the first two hours of the game are terrible, why would the rest be any better?
Because some games do that.
It took me 2 and a half hours to finish the game. (to the real ending) It also could have been that they played better then me, so then they could have finished the game.
Holy fuck everybody shut up. IGN and Sonic fans. IGN, you seem to make fun of Sonic at any chance you get. You have some points, but still, calm down a bit. Sonic fans, you’re doing nothing but giving these people more and more to make fun of us with. You say there biased? You’re biased. We’re ALL biased.
Even listening to the review, they don’t hate Sonic completely. They liked Secret Rings, they liked Unleashed for the Wii. They don’t like two things? Cry more. What matters is if you like. I think Black Knight is one of the stupidest things ever. I’m not going to play it, I’m not going to buy it.
It seems that whenever IGN gives a good review, you all praise them. When they don’t, you all bitch. And say there biased (ORLY? Sonic fans saying that their opinion is biased for giving a bad score to what could be to non Sonic fans a genuine bad game. What’s that called again? Oh ya. BIAS).
So I suggest we all shut up. Give credit where credits do. When there is a good score, yay good score. When there is a bad score, take what they said into account, play the game for yourself, and make up your opinion. In the end that’s what matters, not theirs.
I agree with what PJMan is saying. Who cares what the hell IGN says? If they didn’t like it, guess what… They didn’t like it! And it’s more than one man. I will say I haven’t been happy with some of their recent articles, and I will agree that some go off on irrelevant tangents and don’t explain enough about the game at hand, but I don’t go on rampages because I know it’s a reflection of one or two people. Not only that, but it spreads beyond IGN and goes to other magazines and review sites. It’s just not looking like a globally appreciated game, so oh well.
Play it for yourself. Like it or dislike it, and shut the hell up!
Can you really blame IGN? They’re entitled to their own opinion, much like we are. I got BK last night. It’s decent. It sucks. Much less than Secret Rings. A little better than Unleashed, but in all reality, imo, it still sucked pretty hard.
Sounds about right.
I’m still gonna try the game, but after this review, my sights aren’t set that high. Not that they were that high in the first place because, c’mon, it’s Sonic with a sword.
So, it’s a war you want, eh IGN?
Nah, I’m kidding. I agree with PJMan-san, but can’t help but feel they’re trying to start a fight.
GOD FUCKING FORBID SONIC TRIES SOMETHING DIFFRENT YOU DUMB ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!
srsly how much of that “classic sonic feel” needs to be mashed into their freakin heads before they shut the hell up.
I CANT WAIT when gamestop comes out with their review.
Gamespot’s will probably be worse.
And it isn’t forbidden that something new is done… it’s forbidden that something new which makes no sense to the character is done. Hell, even BioWare didn’t give Sonic a damn sword. He already has some spiky shit on his back, if I remember correctly. It’s just a silly concept.
Y’know, it could’ve been good, but it wasn’t done well anyway.
man…they just want everyone to hate them huh?
I’m just so angry…EVERY SONIC GAMES ARE GREAT!! almost every time for me the last Sonic game that comes out is better then the last one!
IGN is no longer reliable anymore…
HELL!! I never looked at a review before playing a game!
I hate reviews…I hate IGN…I hate reviewers!
Black Knight was awesome!
Sonic 06 was INCREDIBLY AWESOME!
Unleashed was great!!
it’s just that for me a Sonic game that is almost perfect is:
1) one with many characters!
2) a great story( they are ALWAYS great)
3) fast platforming like usual
the only BIG thing I didn’t like in Unleashed is that the day stages are ONLY about speed…almost no platforming…
this is only my opinion…
Finally, someone agrees with me. After listening to that and agreeing to everything they said, I’m not even gonna give this game a chance. Called me biast or ignorant, but they have a point. Sonic is about speed, not melee.
The whole idea was stupid peoples. Sonic and a sword DON’T WORK!!!
IGN made their opinion. Stop complaining and live with it. You have your opinion of the game. They said theirs and you don’t have to complain about their views.(Even it rated unfairly) Enjoy the game or not. ITS YOUR OPINION.
I agree with Feh. If he didn’t like the majority of the game, what’s gonna make him like the end?
PJMan speaks the truth.
P4
“The whole idea was stupid peoples. Sonic and a sword DON’T WORK!!!”
That is your opinion also, you like to throw that word around then say something like the above quote like it’s fact.
ALL I GOT TO SAY is…. I’m sure its been said before, but i’m gonna bring it up again. SEGA and any other video game company works their backs off in making a game to please everyone. Anyone who is dedicated in making something puts their heart and soul into it. IGN and any other “mentally unevolved” site that gets a high off of badmouthing someone elses work should be asked the following questions:
A. Did anyone at this site put at least one second of effort in making the game?
If no, then shut your mouth.
B. Do you know how to play a video game?
If no, then dont say the game is bad because you can’t hold a freakin controller the right way, let alone play the game.
C. How much money are you getting paid to badmouth a franchise?
If thats the case, then those people are scum.
Thank you for allowing me to voice my opinion, and i think these NEGATIVE sites need a swift kick in the behind from SEGA’s legal professional, because if sites like IGN are effecting sales and marketing for SEGA, then this must violate some law.
peace, SEGA and Sonic Forever Rocks!!!
lolzorz, I don’t really give seriously. It’s simply annoying to the point it’s funny, I don’t think Sega car much about all this either, the fanbase is speaking, the critics drowning.
IGN need a serious reboot lol
I would agree that this game has its share of its problems since I own and beaten the game already. I’m not going to defend it nor will I bash on it. Believe it or not, the gameplay gimmick with the sword does work pretty well surprisingly. The real problem in the game was the clunky movement and the improperly timed QTEs (which IGN didn’t even mention). As a sonic fan, it doesn’t anger me if the game has a bad score, if its a bad game, then its a bad game but when a game is reviewed poorly for the sake to automatically say “it sucks” then that what causes all this uproar. What doesn’t help either is the fact IGN is is now mocking the fans. Doesn’t bother me to be honest but when you piss off already angered tigers, then you better expect a backlash.
All these comments and parts of the article here are nitpicking to try and find anything possible wrong with what they’re saying no matter what they say to back up what they say. So far IGN has the only review of SatBK and something tells me it’s not going to get any better cause it’s not just 1 person in this podcast saying it’s bad, you have at least 3 people in it saying it’s bad and they all probably played it.
“You like punishing yourself just because it has Sonic in it”
Truer words were never spoken to a group of people who won’t listen no matter what.
TailstheHedgehog: Hmp! I will agree with what you said.
Still, as bad as we may be by complaining, IGN is not making themselves look any better than us.
So apprently by IGN words, If you Like SATBK, you don’t know what a good game is?
Holy crap, RGX, is that you!?
HOLY CRAP LOOK AT ALL THE RANTING!!! Jeez! It’s been said almost a thousand times already, but I’m just gonna say it again. You’ll never get anywhere listening to all of us. And it’s clear to me that IGN bases it’s reviews on their first impressions with the game, rather than trying to look for the good in it. So, the only thing left to do is play it yourself. Just know that as far as IGN is concerned: Bad First Impression. Buy it, play it yourself. If it sucks, just sell it to game stop and get a new one. No big.
Quit crying. This game is terrible, it’s an embarrassment for SEGA, and IGN is entitled to their own opinions, and there’s nothing you can do about it. How many Sonic fans are still in their diapers? This is depressing.
At this point, IGN has lost any respect I had for it. Not only is MOCKING fans (nontheless BY A EFFING “PROFESSIONAL” OR “OFFICAL” SITE!) immature, but the game CANNOT be beaten in two hours.
All I see anymore is war based games or first person shooters for the 360 (otherwise known as the Glitch Box) getting good reviews (and Mario, but I could care less). Anything besides that and it’s automatcially shit.
And does anyone on IGN (or any other reviewing site) care about more than gameplay? No! You have a STORY! You have the graphics, the cut scenes, acting, animation, music, and any other great thing that makes the game what it is! You can’t simply like a game for the gameplay, otherwise it’s obvious you have no understanding of life in general.
I could add more, but I see no point in it.
lol
Sonic don’t suck! IGN sucks!!! Curse you IGN forever! Hope your company goes down this month and SEGA will sue you for your sucking ratings!
One word people. Ignore. Let them have their own opinion. If they want to be silly let them be silly. As long as we ‘try’ to act mature and display opinions in a civilised manner then we’ll be fine.
All reviewers get the debug copy of the games to review thats standard. Dont let the word debug fool you into thinking that it means “unfinished” it means that online content isnt shown to the public and in some games it passes them onto an alternative online server.
I gonna bet this game on Friday! I think the game will be great. I like swords and I like Sonic. This will be perfect! It feels like SEGA knows what I want!
Even if its not so much “Sonic” about it, it doesn’t matter! The game can still be good. And I think swords is good. So I don’t belive IGN at all.
Lets find out on Friday!
Ah, yes. And this coming from a so-called professional site of reviewers.
Go figure.
And he’s putting the game down because there are no loop-de-loops? Seriously people?!
Talk about something…: I know! Just because its not so much “Sonic” its not a bad game. Maybe not perfect but the game deserves at least 6/10 and I think 7/10 and 8/10 is some scores that would make sens too. 9/10 is maybe too much but not under 5/10!
The game has a loop de loop, I haven´t played it, but I´ve seen it in one of the Trailers! That loop was a rail one though … .
Yes, I thought about that to!
Its completely pointless to say “lol u sonic fanz r n00bs because sonic will always sux” or “IGNorant is full of the grabgez, this is the best game everz”.
Instead of the fans/anti-fans reacting calmly and the reviewers acting professionally, we get this mess. I find it a damn shame. IGN might be hated by Sonic fans but the truth is, their reputation will never go down simply because of the fans from different other game series and all the viewers who want info for upcoming games. Both the fans and the reviewers are not acting civilized for whatever reason. Basically all I can say is the people who haven’t played the game or had a good amount of observation, don’t make negative comments because your only adding onto the fire and not making yourself look any better and the people who have played the game need to stop overreacting with the over-dramatic reactions to the bad receptions. As well, its been proven a few times that IGN is not a reliable source for rating Sonic games lately so don’t be surprised if a bad review is coming. Go check out other sites for their opinion.
Basically IGNore IGN.
Haha, I’m witty.
This isn’t about Sonic fanboys. This is about IGN being so incompetent and FUCKING LAZY to play the whole game. Current sonic games DO suck (Sonic with a sword is stupid), but if your going to write a review you better finish the damn game. And people trust reviews, HAHA, I wouldn’t be surprised if they played GTA4 for 2 hours before giving it a 10.
Remember, IGN is owned by FOX, so if expect quality from them the your a fucking idiot.
Poonoo: FOX? You mean as in FOX News?
They should stop creating sonic franchise games just to get the sonic fans to buy it!
Sonic stories are completely insane, like he becoming a werewolf and stuf like that.
They should create new games and let sonic rest in peace (or create decent games, at least).
Umm… this is what everyone’s flying off the handle about? A casual pow-wow between IGN journalists on Nintendo Chat? Geez, man. I expected worse.
For “fighting back against the Sonic fanbase”, I was expecting some more objectionable, offensive words to have been said. Y’know, the typical lunacy one might hear on YouTube. God, this whole thing has become a fucking cult war, and these IGN dudes don’t seem to give two fucks if they’re adding fuel to the fire. I wouldn’t be surprised if they only played pieces of the game, but that’s probably too convenient a possibility for rabid and miserable fan people.
I like fun games, and I like Sonic games. Believe it or not, I might actually have the magic power to enjoy a “sub-par” Sonic game such as Black Knight, as well as its predecessor. If it sucks, then it sucks, but at least I’ll know it for what it sucked at and what it didn’t suck at. Given that I like Sonic enough and judge that the game looks rather good, I’m willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and grab it in the future. Once I get a Wii.
I really do wonder if you can’t play without using the Wiimote… ah, who gives a flop. Let’s play some games and have fun.
@Daniel Costa: Sonic R.I.P? Nah… I think he needs a new approach. A nice mix of old and new school.
Good lord, these guys are ignorant. They didn’t even finish the game, then they review it. And they review it against the standards of a classic Sonic game? What the hell. Seriously, the game is a spin-off in the storybook series.
And “fact checking” is not important? A review is based on facts. If you lie by misinterpreting certain facts, you’ll give false impressions to the reader who may consider buying the game.
If it is was Mario weilding a sword in a spin-off game, critics would be praising it instead of bashing it for not being like SMB or Donkey Kong.
These people deserve all the angry retaliation they’re getting. They are indeed a prime laughing stock among game “critics”.
Sonication on March 7th, 2009 9.30 pm
“Poonoo: FOX? You mean as in FOX News?”
Yes
http://corp.ign.com/
Read the paragraph
Eh, why not make this the next poll on this site?
“Do you agree with the IGN review for SBK?”
I read through this and I see exactly what I hate. Biased Sonic fans that think any thing with the name Sonic on it is the best thing ever, despite the crap that some of these games are garbage, in concept and execution (Sonic 06). Ya, it’s nice that you can have fun with it. If you can great. But if you ignore the fact that the game is a technical abomination, and say that sites should give Sonic 06 good scores or else that said site is incompetent, then in the end it’s you that comes out looking like a jackass, not them.
Try playing these games through the view point of a non-Sonic fan, or better yet, a jaded Sonic fan, such as these IGN reviewers. Some of what I read in these comments consists of bitching about people preferring the older games better. To all those who think this, want to know something? They WERE better. In the eyes of the general public and not the loyal fans, Sonic 1 – 3&K were great fun, and these new games are utter garbage. And you know what, you people are to blame for this crap we’re getting. Don’t any of you realize that by buying this crap you’re allowing this stuff to happen? They can cut corners and make these games in two seconds, but as long as someone buys the game, then they’ll just keep going, because they know that no matter what they do you guys will still support this crap.
Am I a classic Sonic fan? Absolutely. But do I hate the newer games? No, saying that would be unfair. I found Unleashed to be great fun, and I enjoyed Adventures 1 and 2 and Sonic Heroes. But you know what I find sad? That I can play a game made 15 years ago (Sonic 3 and Knuckles) and still have fun with it today, while I can’t even stand some of these newer games. That’s just sad Sega.
And just a word of warning folks. You can bitch and moan and cry about bad mean IGN all you want, but in the end it’s just the Sonic fans that are going to look bad. There’s more of them, and they are backed up by most gamers. Sorry to say, we’re the minority here. So I suggest you all shut up with the bitchiness and keep it to yourself.
@DoctorEggman: prime example of the stuff that makes us look bad. There’s a difference between Nintendo and Sega. Quality control. Mario Sunshine may have sucked in concept but it was polished and well made. I don’t care how great Sonic 06 was in concept (It wasn’t good in concept but just saying if it was). It’s a technical nightmare.
Sonic needs to be set on such high standards. It’s the only way that he can return to his former glory. Think of it as tough love. Also it’s simply unavoidable. These people play this game (Even if they don’t play all of it, I think they have enough of a taste in their mouth to say what they think) and think it’s awful, then they think about how good the classics were. With Mario, there is no need for nostalgia, as what they’re playing is a good game.
tl;dr: A lot of you fans are all idiots. In the end this bitchiness just makes us look worse. To most people newer Sonic games are garbage and the classics were great, so just deal with it.
[b]I’m shocked this hasn’t happened sooner honestly, the way some of the Sonic fanbase act in general is a fucking joke.
Sonic fanboys are the new Nintendo fanboys, childish, nonsensical, whiners… Probably because most Sonic fans are just Nintendo fanboys that happen to like Sonic.[/b]
@Sharky: This is true. When Sega died it was kind of ironic how those who used to vow against Nintendo eventually just started loving them with all their hearts.
Remember folks, the last thing we want is to be seen as is like Nintendo fanboys. That’s a big no-no.
*Sigh, if only history went another way. If Sony never entered the market, Sega would still be king. If Nintendo died, Mario would be in Sonic’s current day spot. Fuck if a reliable company bought out Sega instead of Sammy we would still be in a better position then we are today. But nope, we have only the present. I’m going to keep day dreaming about the past thanks. You guys can have your sword waggle, I’m going to buy a Sega CD to play Sonic CD on actual hardware for the first time ever. IMO that sounds more fun.
Ah such drama.
Its shame things can’t go back to the days of ”its just a game, lets have fun” type of thing.
Good Times. Good Times.
[...] TSSZ News will continue to bring you scores, opinions, and perspectives relating to Sonic and the Black Knight. Thanks go out to BlackHawkOmega who sent this information in via our News Tips system. And be sure to be on the lookout this weekend when I review the game. Don’t worry–I’ll play it for more than 2 hours. [...]
[...] Sonic and the Black Knight. While he used the moment to poke fun at Sonic fandom as a whole in a radio podcast shortly after the review, it did nothing to quell tensions between the reviewer, the website as a [...]
IGN, if you want to give a Sonic game a low score, that’s fine. But damn it, try putting effort into your reviews instead of this “nothing like the classics” bullcrap.
Both IGN and Sonic Fan’s should be thrown into a pit of no return. Sega no longer makes all around good games period except for a select few which arn’t Sonic games, and no IGN dosn’t always give a truthfull option but to a point there not wrong either. There are many of games that are ten fold better then some of these shitty Sonic games that have come out since the 2000. I like many diffrent games and many diffrent genre’s but IGN isn’t making bad reviews there just done with these bad games and don’t care anymore. You people should be look at the other games/series out there such are the Fire Emblem’s, The Elder Scrolls, Half Life, Some of the Call of Duty’s, Halo, Metal Gear Solid, Bioshock, Guitar Hero’s, and many more. The time is now move on to better games/series which most have better storylines and characters (well some anyway). Just stop your idiotic rants and such.
[...] from the same organization who openly mocked the Sonic fanbase upon giving Sonic and the Black Knight a poor [...]
These guys are animals!
They should show more respect for classic characters like Sonic.
And they still rate themselves experts in whatever they do…
…Video game reviews, isn’t it?
Yeah yeah, whatever…
All of this discussion regarding whether they played the game, or not, is downright ridiculous. And I’m talking about both sides of this nerd war.
True, IGN isn’t the best site for gaming informantion, reviews, etc. Just look at all those adds. They’re clearly selling themselves. It doesn’t matter if the game is good or bad. If the developer pays them a certain amount of cash in order to put adds there, then it’s a guaranteed positive review for said developer’s games. This means, in my opinion, that sites such as GameSpot and IGN are untrustworthy.
In a nutshell, this is what happens:
-Developer makes game.
-Said game is heavily criticizes, or doesn’t meet the developer’s expectations
-Developer decides to bribe the press: “I’ll pay you a ton of cash if we can put our adds in your site/magazine. But you must give positive reviews for our games.”
-The game is successful.
Now, Sonic fanboys should also open their eyes a little. Writing a review is not easy, and can even become boring and stressful. Specially when you hate the game.
The critic has no obligation to play the game up to, for example, 75%. A review can be easily written as long as the author experienced the game’s basic concepts and ideas, and observed technical details at least minimally. So, just because the guy who reviewed SBK only played through half of the game is no proof he has no material or ideas for a review. And if he says that the rest of the game is composed of side missions, then that’s how he saw it. He has no obligation of knowing that said side missions unlocks a secret ending of sorts. Other critics may see this differently, and maybe even in a positive sense.
It all leads to one thing: opinion and freedom of speech.
So, let the guys do their jobs. Even if they absolutely suck at what they do.
So, yeah, all this nerd rage is pointless and stupid. If you like the game, then fine, others might do as well. No need to bash the people who hate it.
[...] is another beam of attention the fandom would prefer not to have. In 2009, IGN staff acknowledged and then promptly ignored sharp community criticism and bias accusations regarding their handing of recent Sonic [...]
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[...] Granted, of the top 25, the game found itself at #23. Progress is progress, though, and more progressive were the kind words select IGN staffers gave to the next 2D Sonic–a stark contrast to the lambasting staffers have given both recent games and its fans. [...]