Acknowledges Sonic’s Always Been for Kids
It is one thing for the ongoing debate concerning a Sonic fan versus a “true” fan, and the typical split between older veterans and new generation Sonic lovers, to run its course through independent venues. It is quite another when it is addressed through official Sega channels.
Today, Sega Europe employee Kevin Eva, under his ArchangelUK handle on the Sonic City Blognik, tried to level the playing field between fans old and new, in a push for peace between the two factions. But in doing so, he called seasoned Sonic veterans who put down the new generation “elitist.”
“I’m talking about that rather annoying spectre that haunts the Sonic Community at times,” Eva wrote, “Namely the ‘we’re better than they are’ types of Sonic fan. Specifically in the case of (Project) Needlemouse we’re talking about dreaded elistist fan.”
Eva, framing his case around two comments with two different opinions–one referencing “true” fans, one not–he made the case that the opinions of older Sonic fans are no less relevant than the younger ones. In doing so, he affirmed that Sonic a franchise meant for children first, now and in the past:
Now the vast majority of old school fans are awesome, absoluetly S-Rank superstars – BUT there are those out there that believe that all Sonic games should be for them. Needlemouse may well be going in a classic direction, how much so you’ll have to wait and see – but just because it is it doesn’t give older fans the right to shun, put down or shout down the younger fans.
[....]
I’m getting a bit weary of these elitist “real fan” type of comments, let’s ignore the comments about not liking Unleashed, because thats their opinion of the game – which they’re entitled to. Its the start and end of this particular paragraph I’d like to address.
Firstly, Sonic has always been a game with kids at their heart. We’ve all grown up over the last 18 years, Sonic’s focus overall has not really shifted in that time. Yes Needlemouse is (from what we know so far) angled towards the classic, but the statement that “Children have no business playing Sonic” is utter Pingas of the highest order. Especially if you have an email address with your year of birth in it showing you’d’ve been five or six when Sonic 1 came out.
Guys, newer fans like the Sonic X-generation fan or even fans who became Sonic fans with Unleashed are entitled to their opinions – even about Needlemouse. There are fans out there who like Unleashed, and Shadow The Hedgehog and Riders and even Sonic 06. Likewise there are some fans that like Amy, some fans like Big, some Sonic fans don’t even care that much about Sonic as a character and there are those that don’t think the originals games were all that hot.
Just because they’re younger, it doesn’t mean your opinion is better (it doesn’t mean its worse either) and that they don’t know anything, and saying they are aren’t isn’t exactly display the sort of maturity 18 years should’ve accumulated.
Though posted on an official Sega blog, it’s unclear whether this can be interpreted as an official Sega stance, moreso than a personal opinion. That noted, it is the first time such rhetoric has been relayed on official channels by an official Sega employee. We should also note that Eva runs Sonic Wrecks, and if solely his opinion, could just as easily have made it known there.
The intent to bridge divisions and bring fans together is admirable, but Eva’s words, if official and if taken to heart, could do more harm than good. Veteran fans–even those not guilty of the aforementioned actions–have long felt scorned with Sega’s more obvious push in recent years to market Sonic toward children. Further, if the next Sonic is a download-only affair for XBOX Live and PSN, as has been hinted at, it would be those veterans, able to easily purchase the game, who hold the key to Project Needlemouse’s success. Should Sega show any wavering of confidence in those veterans, they in turn could lose confidence in Needlemouse’s direction, and that could under these circumstances seriously damage the game’s chance at commercial success.
Further veteran alienation remains a big risk, especially in the name of quelling fan in-fighting, and especially since we barely know more about Project Needlemouse than we did four months ago. Do you think such a risk is worth it? Tell us in the comments section.
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Man I hate this war between fans, I can’t even take sides since my experience of Sonic was right between the older generation and the newer one! But to put, not all kids are right, and the same goes for the “veterans”. Yes, Sonic is aimed at children, but they WILL get tired of Sonic quickly if he’s only for kids. Being acceptable for children but still having the rush of the older days is the best we can get.
Sonic Rush is a pretty good example.
And Sonic Unleashed’s (next gen) daytime levels were axhilerating. Werehog wasn’t half bad, it was like Knuckle’s SA fighting with more moves.
@Casey
Oh definitely, let’s just keep eating all the shit SEGA pours down our throats and enjoy it. I could definitely go for some more asinine ideas and incredibly broken game play!
@ OSM and Casey
Casey said great games but just cause it’s not classic doesn’t mean it has to be bad with a ton of characters and broken gameplay. Like the Sonic Rush games for example.
This is the type of mess that makes me annoyed with the fanbase cause you guys are always angry and lash out at each other.
My post was directing to OSM and Dr.Eggfang
i 100% agree with him. These bitter and rude classic fans need to get their act together.
Everyone just have to be a little more tolerant of eachother, and respect other’s opinions. “oh but bad programming and game design is a fact not an opinion”. Yes the game may not be perfect, but other people like it for their own reasons, and may not even agree that the game is all that bad.
Example, i loved sonic unleashed, along with the werehog stages. Personally i dont see why people say those stages are so bad, i enjoyed them. (though some levels did have their flaws). It dosent make me wrong or right, its just my opinion.
AFter thouroughly reading the article and these comments, I’ m gonna have to agree with AAUK on this. Just because a fan is younger and can’t grasp certain things doesn’t mean that his heart isn”t in the wrong place. Take me for example; I’m 17 years old, and I cosider both the Werehog and Professor Pickle two of my favorite characters of the franchise, even though the Werehog technically IS Sonic. I also enjoyed Sonic Unleashed mainly due to its simplicity And lightheartedness, whereas Sonic Adventure 2 is one of my least favourite games of the franchise due to how serious they took the storyline and how obnoxiusly annoying Sonic’s attitutde was.
Project Needlemouse is way to appeal to both sides of the fanbase, but my main question is this; Wouldn’t you do the same thing if you were a kid?
It’s kind of funny, but it’s a tragedy as well.
Oh, boy. Way to take sides and understand little about either.
I’m really not going to bother anymore.
AAUK should just keep hes big trap shut! AAUK knows nothing about Sonic. He needs to get fired badly!
@Sonication: Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it stated in the Sonic Retrospective? Even if it wasn’t, I’m sure I’ve heard an official statement somewhere that Sonic’s ‘coolness’ and attitude was meant to appeal to teenagers.
FINALLY.
It’s about time someone smart in this damn broken community stood up and said this. I agree with this guy completely about all these annoying retrofags. Hell, I’ll be 19 in a couple months and I grew up play Sonic since I was 4 right from the first game all the way up to the current ones, and I can’t believe the crap all of these idiots are saying about all the games.
The old games were NOT that amazing. And there’s nothing wrong with the newer games or the people who like them. All of these old people who can’t get over the past shouldn’t take away from the current generation just so they can rot and fester in their nostalgia in their attics for the rest of their lives. (Project Needlemouse)
Times have changed folks, let’s move on and go with the flow. Have an open mind, will ya?
And for whatever god you worship’s sake people…Just because they’re kids doesn’t mean they’re stupid or have no opinion. And it especially doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play. It seems like older gamers, retrofag or not, seem to always forget that the best and most skilled gamers are in fact kids who play non-stop since they actually don’t “think” while they play. They simple do what they need to do. I doubt any of you here are nearly as good at the games you’ve played in the past as you were when you were younger. :3
Yeah, I’ve really got to admit. In my travels across the seas of the internet, at such exotic distant lands such as NeoGAF, there are insane, staunch Sonic the Hedgehog fanboys that have VERY SPECIFIC and EXTREMELY NARROW definitions of what they want from their “perfect” Sonic game – and it’s often rife with things that are no longer relevant or logical to the franchise. Things that are never going to come back and frankly, don’t need to come back. But whenever a new Sonic game forsakes anything on this list, it’s automatically The Worst Thing Ever™.
At the same time, though, looking to the younger players doesn’t strike me as the “ONE TRUE CORRECT PATH”, either. A 10 year old doesn’t know what they want. They’ll literally watch anything – as evidenced by the fact that I was 10 years old once, too. When I was 10, I was in love with shows like G.I. Joe, The original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon, He-Man, etc. If you watch a lot of that stuff today, it’s clearly obvious that it was nothing more than a vapid, mindless, blatant advertisement for an action figure. Kids will watch that stuff and say that they enjoy it. I certainly did. There’s certainly a lot of money in that line of thinking, too. But it is not better. “It doesn’t have to be sophisticated and can be bad because kids will like it anyway” is not a valid defense.
Sonic the Hedgehog needs to be a balance. It shouldn’t cater to children, it shouldn’t cater to fanboys, it probably shouldn’t be catering to any niche at all, really. Sonic the Hedgehog just needs to be a good game that everyone can enjoy, specific demographics be damned.
i don’t think the new ones are THAT bad it’s also fun but also kind of misunderstanding sometimes (sorry i have a bad english experience xD) but nah i know they’ll make it as good as before~ X3 (just believe damn it XD)
I haven’t read the comments by other users here but I shall repeat the obvious because I know must have come up – it’s not the long time fans bashing the new Sonic games. It’s EVERYONE.
I welcomed Sonic Chronicles and the Sonic Unleashed demo was amazing – but this old fallacy of an argument has a lack of validity and shows how out of touch Sonic Team can be.
Y’know, it’s quite simple. Project Needlemouse is a classic-styled Sonic game. Therefore, it should be designed with people who love classic Sonic games in mind.
If you’re saying people who DON’T like classic Sonic games should get an equal say, why not people who don’t like Sonic full-stop? After all, they’re equally catered for.
You know, many sonic games is E10+ how could this be for kids,I mean what about 4,5,6 ages,and I played almost all Sonic games,they have some serious like Shadow game or Sonic 06 or SA2.Also if Sonic for kids then what will you say about Mario I mean his games are no serious.
What I want to say is that sonic games were and always be for everyone,and I think AAUK did’nt mean sonic is for kids and only kids
god, this is fan base is frustrating. what AAUK and his supporters need to understand that a lot of the anger about the new games isn’t just because their badly made per say. is that the games are completely different in theme and in style
from the games in the 90s.
I mean how would you like it if we took all of frodo and his hobbit Friends and took them out of middle earth into modern day new york or what if we took han solo and replaced his cool smartass personality with that of boring bland nice mickey mouse.
what i fear is that the new games won’t have the staying power of the old games because the quality of the games just isnt there. because of the aforementioned bad game design, god awful voice work, etc. they’ll grow up and probably get embarrassed for liking the games in the first place.
Sonic,Mario,Mega man,Rayman,Crash and klona they all are for kids more then they are for adult so,don’t compare other characters to Sonic on this because he is more for teenagers then Mario do.
If the children really were the most profitable demographic, tell me, why did the originals fare better 20 years ago, on a single console, when there were less gamers out and about?
RockmanZero, if I’m not wrong, said this.
Here’s food for thought-
MAYBE THERE WASN’T SO MUCH COMPETITION. MAYBE SEGA GAMES SOLD MUCH BETTER. MAYBE SEGA CONSOLES WERE A BIGGER SUCCESS.
Here’s another thing. Tristan, you should be ashamed. You purposedly grabbed a natural, correctly written post and flamed it on your last paragraph to bring more views. Are you honestly turning TSSZ to Fox News?
Favorite justification? I am paraphrasing here… [Some fans don't even like sonic, they care more about the side characters]…well then then they are not Sonic fans, and their opinion is equivalent to nothing. That is like saying I like the Mario games I just don’t like Mario, I wish the Gomba was the main character. And what it all boils down to is money, the older fans got the dough, so catering to them is key now, because they are a part of the first group of adult gamers, and they want games to be fun. And they need to desperately reboot the franchise, because the last few outings have been horrible, and I for one do not want to keep wasting my money on mediocre product. So SEGA is doing the smart thing, and going back to the basics, they can build from there, but is the right thing to do. If the kids don’t like it, well there plenty of other wonderfully mediocre games out there for them to play, let Sonic strive for greatness again.
You know what? I think Ryan Bloom’s got the right idea.
I’m just sayin’.
These are the same people who write “XD” on the company’s twitter account. Who cares about what they have to say.
Well, pretty much everyone who post a comment here does. And I post “XD” all the time. What’s wrong with that?
@ Brad You can like a franchise but not like the main character. I know plenty of people who prefer Luigi OVER Mario. Also, what makes you think Sonic games would sell well to an older demographic like the first Sonic fans just because they have money? Kids have parents with money, kids can get almost anything they want, too.
Also, think about it: Sonic is a freakin’ BLUE hedgehog! A CARTOON CHARACTER. Sonic’s main appeal is and will forever be towards kids. I know most of you are upset because Sonic isn’t exactly like the Sonic you knew… but that’s just nastalgia. If you don’t like the new games, and feel that it’s slaughtering your childhood… then don’t touch them! Everytime I watch Cartoon Network I feel like my childhood is being destroyed. So what do I do? I step aside and let the next generation step up and make their own memories.
What’s wrong with that? It gives a poor image of the company maybe? It’s not their personal account, it’s the company’s account. Hell, a few months ago there was someone posting from Sega’s account anxiously waiting to play Batman AA. Yeah, it’s a great game…But does it have anything to do with Sega?
Which brings me back to my initial point: who cares about what they have to say?
In agreement with Treleus, Ryan Bloom does have the right idea, but there’s a very huge flaw with it. One that we’ve been reminded of ever since Sonic Heroes and all the way up to now.
You can’t please everybody. >_> *happens to love Sonic Heroes by the way*
To answer your question, The person who posted this article and everybody who has made a comment about this issue care or else we can just ignore it and continue on with our business.
He really pegged it. The way some of the ‘elite’ fans treat the younger fans is just disgusting. The first game came out before I was born so yes I am one of the ‘younger’ fans, though i have played almost every Sonic game and I love em all but I find I play on the newer ones more often.
ALthough they are entitled to an opinion the are not entitled to bash someone elses opinion, I’m sick to death of being cursed out when i saw I’m a Shadow fan or I liked ’06 and to be honest if they hate so many of the games so much the word ‘fan’ isn’t really a suitable word to describe them.
They call us immature but they’re the ones acting like brats and they do need to keep in mind that it’s 2010 so 2D games really don’t cut it anymore and scaring off half the fanbase is not really a great way to show your support of the franchise.
As for Sonic X the only mistakes they made were Chris Thornedyke, turning Knux into a gullable idiot and giving it to 4Kids to dub, the latter being the biggest mistake. But other then that it’s all good.
Sonic is for everybody. In regard to older fans disrespecting younger fans, it can happen in any fanbase, but with Sonic I feel like sometimes it’s more about what a younger fan might value compared to an older fan.
As an older fan, I disagree when other older fans say things like ‘Sonic should only be in 2D’ and such. I think that’s wrong. But then again, I don’t really care for a lot of things Sega has done with the franchise, such as introducing guns n’ bikes to Shadow. Younger fans with a different view might like it, but as an older fan I have a different perspective and perhaps somewhat ironically see it as a totally inappropriate gameplay element to have been introduced in that context. For Robotnik to use it would make sense, but the way they used it with Shadow seemed like a weak appeal to the ‘GTA’ crowd, if that makes sense.
I’m getting on a tangent here.. but speaking as an older fan, again, Sonic has always been for everyone, kids and all, it’s just the attitude I sometimes see that seems to focus away from what’s important in Sonic games (such as favoring characters over gameplay) is what annoys me.
Wow…some people really don’t understand what they mean by “mainly for kids” at all do they?
Mainly for kids meaning that the game is made MAINLY for kids…duh…old fans or new…it doesn’t matter, the made IS INFACT MADE FOR EVERYONE.
So people who keep saying that Sega isn’t going for the same as they always have is full of BS. Sonic is, and always was, mainly for kids, MEANING FOR EVERYONE. What people think should all be taken into consideration, be them old or new, fans of the classic games or fans of the recent games.
I for one am an old fan which my first game EVER was Sonic 1 for Megadrive/Genesis, and I still liked most of the games released until the very last one. Of course some were better than others, but it’s my opinion.
I am surprised for some of the comments I read…I, for one am disappointed.
Claiming the franchise is aimed towards children is no excuse for the abysmal quality of recent games. Kids deserve good games too.
i think he is right, no fans should be dismissed of their opinion because of their age. dispite newer games feeling lesser than (for instance) SA1/SA2, theres always something in the newest of the games that makes me smile, something, it could even be quotes from characters, or level style etc. but its what makes me happy to be a fan of sonic, im glad not all sega’s games are following exactly the same style as with the adventure series, its nice to play something a little different, and SEGA gives us new play styles etc. all the time
learn to enjoy them!
I think to sum up what everyone is saying, back and forth…
Back when Sonic was first released, his games were of a quality that could be enjoyed by everyone, regardless of what his target audience may or may not have been. When I go back and play these games even now, I still enjoy them.
That is just something I do not find in many new games. I played them for months, then they sat in the dust. Some people put them down after mere days. But, that can vary player to player.
Even so, a game should not be designed assuming that children will enjoy it just because they’re children. These children grow up. Power Rangers is a prime example of this. While I’ve enjoyed many of the new seasons, many were just bad. In the end, they’ve had to rely on their veteran fans for support with a rerelease of MMPR. You cannot just assume that people will just buy something.
And although many of his new games are still enjoyed by many (including myself), they can still be frustrating do to poor design. This is not a subject of opinion. If you like a game, but still die from glitches, then the game still has glitches. Regardless of whether you like it or not, regardless of whether they bothered you or not. They’re. still. there.
SEGA programmers themselves have constantly admitted to being put under pressure to push out the newest Sonic game. Why give an explanation for poor quality if none exists?
And this is the problem. The Sonic fandom is often seen as divided into two sides, when that is not true. It’s three (with possibly a few subcategories): those who hate new games because they just do, people who dislike new games due to poor quality, and people who like new and old. If SEGA releases poor quality games, then it’s already on the bad end of 2/3 of its gamers.
There is a sense of absurdity in the claims of many “elitist” fans. I’ve encountered many people who dislike new Sonic and when I ask for a defense for their claim, they are unable to give any. I’ve also used my own gameplay to support any claim I’ve made. This does not mean that arguments against the new games do not exist, it just simply means that there are people who dislike something simply because it’s not what they grew up with and go out of their way to be ugly about it.
Another issue on a more global scale: SoJ vs. SoEverywhere else. Many claim that the newer SEGA games cater to Japanese audiences and this has been shown through SEGA history. Japan did not make Sonic popular, everyone else did. When I and many others look back into our past, it’s not Japan that makes me a giddy Sonic fan, it’s shows like SatAM and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. That should be kept in mind.
AAUK…you really hit the nail on the head with this one.
It just make me sick to see that retro fans basically shiting on the newer fans and to them that if don’t worship the genesis games like god, you need to commit suicide. I mean, so what if I like the newer games more then the older ones? What the hell happen to just liking Sonic because he was cool and liking his games because they were FUN?! Wait, what do you mean I can’t have fun? Then why do we videogam…oh, I see. We have just stuck illogical people.
I remember when I was a kid. What made a game fun was the people that you played with. After awhile I started to get a self awareness of what is hot from what is not. Then the graphics fad kicked in with PORTS games like Street Fighter. After that I was a Nintendoholic via my cousin who was high on SEGA.
SEGA died and they fled to the SONYPSX. It was a horrible. The PSX was just a 3d SNES. In fact it was just a 3d Turbo graphix. I will admit. The games that was made for the PSX was better in every which way possible. This
To be honest western games only began when METAL GEAR WAS RELEASED.
Then the X-box brought the PC games crowd to consoles. Before all of this everything in videogames was just Mario, Sonic, Cloud, Madden, WWF, and Pokemon.
American and even European gaming died during the upscale 16-bit period. We had mostly ports of movies. While the SNES and Genesis did had many hits. Most of these hits was never really anything to impress.
Speaking of how bad western gaming was lets look back at the Jagaur. The game system was from Atari. It was to outdo the SNES. However it failed.
How did it failed? There was no real games on. What is even sadder is how the name Atari represent American gaming.
Newer gamers do not known what they missed out on. 3d is just about dimension. Even more original 3d games you will have more fun on then the more recent games. Everything done in 3d is just what has been done in 2d already. Look at starfox on the SNES, before that was a NES shooter. The same with Zelda, there was another game before it.
The younger crowd is misinformed. The problem is the older crowd is not doing anything to help it. So the younger crowd just eat the crap off the floor as they usally meant to. Back then I was crazy, listen to your mature counterparts. They are the real players. 3d gaming was a gimick from the start. Now all 3d games can look fun with special effects. The Amiga can do 3d games no differnt then your recent system. All it ever needed was a powerfull 3d card.
Yes all you new gamers needs to put down the Weed stick and buy some 2d games. Mybe then you can see what we mean.
You all moan too much.
Reading this truly makes me lauph. Seriously people, IT`S A GAME. I personally love ALL the Sonic games,but due to finacial status I have not had the privilage to play all of them. I think this has given me a rare view.
First of all, take a step back and look at what you have said and your reactions. People sitting here and having wars over what you THINK is right, bashing anyone who is even a DAY younger than you, you all look RETARDED. IT. IS. A. GAME. It does not have some controversal, universe altering affect. Pretty much, Sonic is owned by SEGA, they can do whatever the hell they want to with “him.” Sonic is not real, the games are make believe and my god PERHAPS WE SHOULD ALL GROW UP (gasp) AND REALIZE WE ARE SPENDING THE BETTER PART OF OUR LIVES SPITTING INTO EACH OTHER`S FACES OVER A VIDEO GAME.