“It’s a way for companies to trick you into paying more for a game”
Wildly popular and just released to XBOX Live Arcade, Super Meat Boy is already being hailed as the next great platformer by fans and press alike. Based off a 2008 Newgrounds Flash game release, its developers, marred in a conundrum of how to release the game to Nintendo Wii, have refuted calls to release the downloadable title episodically–calling out another one-time platform giant in the process.
“Dear Internets: Super Meat Boy on Wii will NOT be Episodic,” wrote Team Meat on their Twitter feed Tuesday. “That’s retarded and we won’t do it. I’d rather kill myself.”
It was in the why of that remark where Sonic 4–and ultimately Sega’s decision to make it episodic–that drew heat from Team Meat in a later clarification.
“Because it is. It’s a way for companies to trick you into paying more for a game. Sonic fucking 4,” read a follow-up from the feed.
Price has been one of many gripes among fans for what amounts to four three-act zones, a boss for each, and a final boss attack in Sonic 4: Episode I. Compared to Super Meat Boy, the latter was released in full on XBOX 360, with a PC and Mac version, also full, to follow later this month. But for Team Meat, limitations in file size for WiiWare titles has been a tough problem to tackle–to the point where the developers recently asked fans whether a watered down version or even a more expensive retail disc version would be acceptable for Wii. It’s ironic, given WiiWare was one of the first platforms intended for the game.
For a retail release, a publisher would be necessary. We suspect after the above remarks that Sega won’t be lining up to offer their help.
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The was WAY too short for $15. On one hand we can expect improvements to ep. 2, but on the other hand, it’ll be far too late for anyone to appreciate 4
*Forgot to put game*
Who cares? Super Meat Boy sucks; shittiest physics engine I’ve ever encountered in a video game. Couldn’t even complete the demo just due to how horrid it was. It’s like N+ only with more ridiculous floatiness.
They have giant balls and and they have a fantastic game to back it up.
And you know, the forum post on SEGA where they said you’d get a special mention and possibly prize if you bought more versions of Sonic 4? That was possibly the most obvious point that this is just a pitch for money.
Finally, I’m not alone into thinking that Sonic 4 being in episodes was dumb.
And LOL @ Haru, I didn’t know you didn’t like Super Meat Boy. I thought the original online flash version was really fun.
$15 x 4 eps = $60
It’s not getting people to pay more, it just gives the developers extended time to work on a game.
I guess Triple E but if Sonic 4 keeps its 4 zones per epp it won’t be has big as NSMBwii and that was only 50$.
I agree fully with what the Devs said, Episodic games need to die.
I agree that episodic games need to die. But in the case of Sonic 4 specifically, I’m glad it’s episodic. An entire game with this shitty physics would have been the last nail on the coffin.
One problem with Episodic Games, if people don’t like the first one (possibly because it was too short), or even if they liked it but just not that much, they won’t buy the next, or the one after that, or the one after that.
You need to make sure each individual episode is a hit to ensure that the series keeps going.
It’s one of the reasons Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness was cancelled after the 2nd episode. That and the fact that it’s gameplay couldn’t really stretch over multiple games.
I hope you all realize that Sonic 4 Episode 1 is as long as Sonic 3 without lock-on.
You payed 60$ for that back in the day, why can’t you pay 15$ for a game JUST AS LONG?
@monic
Because nobody charges 15$ for a 2 hour game anymore, that’s why.
I see that argument all the time and it’s just the silliest, muddiest logic I can imagine.
It’s like going into an electronics store where they’re still charging 2 grand for a 40 inch HDTV. And when you say it’s too much their defense is “WELL IT COST THAT MUCH 10 YEARS AGO SO WHY IS IT TOO EXPENSIVE NOW HURRRR”
It is NOT 15 years ago. Economic climates change, technology advances, and to compare a modern game that took no significant R&D or design costs to a game that was relatively “cutting-edge” 15 years ago is just so near-sighted.
Also, when I payed 60 dollars for Sonic 3 it had new environment designs and bosses and a new character (Tails could fly and was no longer a Sonic clone.)
When I payed 15 dollars last month I got re-rendered zones from old Sonic games and a homing attack.
If they choose to not be episodic, that’s fine and dandy in my book. However, you don’t need to sound like a jerk about it. It comes off as mud-slinging and labels your company, as a whole, as a bunch of smucks to the general public. I don’t care if it IS a Twitter post, it sounds very unprofessional for a game company to say about another.
“Episodic games need to die.”
Half Life 2 and Sam & Max would like a word. In a back alley.
I can’t fathom what’s to complain about the episodic nature, really. Would you rather they released a full game that was completely new in content, yet held the problems of Ep 1 throughout the whole thing and was simply mediocre? Or are you actually content with them splitting it up, with the first episode testing the waters of a new classic-style game by retooling old content and acting as a prequel to the actual game, in order to get feedback on how they’re going about the modern-classic so that the -actual- game (2/3 (or 4!) episodes) will be of a respectable quality?
I mean, I can understand using the name ‘Sonic 4′ to label the first episode as the return to form (did they ever say that? They said ‘Sonic 4′ and seemingly meant the whole game) driving a few people nuts, but releasing it as a different game until a different title trying to imitate classic Sonic (hello Sonic Advance!) wouldn’t get them the serious feedback that they’re looking for.
Seriously. If it´s episodic for being fixed/improved after each chapter, then they already knew the low quality of the game since the beginning. There are tons of games (even $10 ones) that are not only cheaper, but better than Sonic 4 Episode 1 with less resources, without reusing an old engine and having to make new graphics, movements and enemies for all the game.
It´s the money again. It has been since Sonic Heroes. Low budget low quality Sonic games sell wonderful. There you have one of the lowest quality ports like Sonic Adventure with $10 price and $5 DLC. Metal Sonic in S&SASR at $7. Sonic 4 Episode 1 at $15. It´s overpriced and it will keep that way. But please, at least make quality games so you can ask for the price.
I would prefer to pay twice for games like Super Meat Boy, Earthworm Jim HD or Megaman 9 than paying the price for Sonic 4 Episode 1. And I really wish Episode 2 meets the classic´s quality, really. So far they don´t deserve that price.
Glory to the Meat.
High-five, Ritz
@Kmetal
Exactly. I think the fact that they want and need all this “feedback” is proof that they don’t have a clue what they’re doing anymore. 16 years ago they wouldn’t have needed fan feedback to tell them how to make Sonic 4. They boldly proclaim “this is what you’ve been waiting for!” and then nudge up to us with a notepad and sheepishly whisper “um.. so… what exactly were you waiting for?”
In the end, an unrealistic game doesn’t need realistic physics. I do agree w/ their comments on episodic games though. (other than Half-Life 2)
They boldly proclaim “this is what you’ve been waiting for!” and then nudge up to us with a notepad and sheepishly whisper “um.. so… what exactly were you waiting for?”
Hahahaha, so true.
@ChaoticFox
That´s it, I´m tired of the excuse of “they can´t do it right the first time, they will do better next time”. Come on, classic Sonic games are already 16 years old, yet they can´t make another one without any of the limits those games had back in the day? You know, games aren´t made randomly, they knew since the beginning they were going to use the Sonic Rush engine, with a low budget. In fact, they should have used less budget on marketing and more in the actual game.
Megaman 9 didn´t need multiple $15 episodes to be made right. They just did what they knew would be a truly return to the classics that classic Megaman fans were asking for. You can like the graphics or the gameplay more or less, but it´s true to the classics and it´s like a sequel would have been.
Some people will say: “Yeah, but they use 8bits graphics”. Then you can watch the Megaman Universe trailer, were 2D maps and 3D objects are used exactly like Sonic 4 did, yet it has exactly the same gameplay, with level editor etc. It´s already looking better than any Sonic 4 trailer did. Because yeah, people who really know the classics knew back then that something was wrong in those little gameplay parts.
If Sonic 4 isn´t like it should (a real return to the classics, a real sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles), it was just because it was a low budget project without the real classic Sonic fans in mind. I hope they just realized during the development what classic Sonic fans really wanted, and that they just didn´t deliver that gameplay quality because they were far in development. Do it better on Episode 2 and I´ll pay gladly $15. But I won´t do it for a mediocre game.
“They have giant balls and and they have a fantastic game to back it up.”
“But in the case of Sonic 4 specifically, I’m glad it’s episodic. An entire game with this shitty physics would have been the last nail on the coffin.”
Werefraud and Andre did a good job summing up my thoughts on the matter.
@Monic
I hope you realise that games like Super Meat Boy, Shadow Complex, Comic Jumper etc. cost as much as Sonic 4 Episode 1 and have at least three times the amount of content.
@KMetalMind:
Your post is almost citizenkane.gif worthy, but I think it’s less “because it was a low budget project without the real classic Sonic fans in mind,” but more of the fact that nobody currently at Sonic Team/Sega has shown that they actually GET Classic Sonic.
@Kmetal
I hope you weren’t under the impression that *I* was making that excuse. I’m in complete agreement with you.
I agree with the developers of Super Meat Boy. While episodic titles shouldn’t end, they should SERIOUSLY lower down the price on the next title. I regret paying 15$ for Ep. 1 and be damned if I am going to pay for Ep. 2 for that ticker price. Unless they give us at least 8 Zones for Ep. 2, then yeah, I’d be willing to pay for the price. Ep. 1, considering how much developers had on thier part, could of been less nostalgic and more original in a sense. *random person shoots*
look whos talking selling a cheap flash game for 800 points and soon it will be 1200 is just greedy also the game is a copy of N+ with shitty pixelated graphics as Nostalgia
The whole Episodic game paradigm comes from shareware games back in the 90′s. Things like Commander Keen and Jill of the Jungle… popular PC shareware model titles of the day… Typically you’d get an easier episode for free and then pay either for each additional episode or buy them all together…
Apogee’s Commander Keen Episode 1 (Marooned on Mars) had 17 levels… which admittedly lack the complexity of a typical Sonic level. Of course that was back before the platform genre exploded into the complexity of the platformers of the 16-bit era.
Episode 2 and 3 were sold in compilation with 1 at cost and had 16 and 17 levels respectively… about the same. The levels were more difficult, but in terms of overall content added, an extra level of a Commander keen game typically doesn’t add nearly as much as a typical Sonic Zone… prior to the modern era anyway. Fortunately in the case of Sonic 4, it doesn’t rely too much on recycling the same content from zone to zone. Certainly not as much as say… Sonic Advance 2 or Sonic Heroes.
Anyway, 15 levels was pretty much the magic number of the era… Epic’s Jill of the Jungle had a free episode with 15 and a hub stage, then a second episode with 20 and no hub stage and then a final stage with another 16 and an overworld.
Those games had a decidedly 8-bit platform design style to them though. Compared to Sonic they were basically a generation behind, and released around the same time as the first couple Sonic games. Commander Keen’s second series would see a release with a good amount of improvement to make it more comparable to a Sonic game…
So when Commander Keen episode 4 came out, it had 16 levels… rather similar in length and variety to Sonic 4. The game featured roughly 4 unique sets of art used for different levels, though it does more mixing and matching compared with a typical Sonic game… to put it simply, it’s slightly longer although also slightly less varied than Sonic 4 in terms of content. It did have the advantage though of being free.
It had only one payed episode in the form of episode 5, which had fewer levels that were ridiculously unforgiving in terms of difficulty and generally wasn’t worth wasting money on when the previous episode was both free and of far superior quality… It’s a bit of an outlier in what I’m trying to say actually.
This all culminates towards one of Epic’s last games of the shareware era which was more or less intended to be a direct snipe at Sonic the Hedgehog in his heyday. It came in 6 different episodes divided into a number of planets (zones) each having a few unique enemies, gimmicks and hazards, much like you’d expect to see in a Sonic game. What would be missing from that formula though would be bosses… only 1 per episode makes it less than a competitor (none of these PC shareware platformers seemed to have any significant number of bosses…)
I don’t have the exact figures on hand, but I believe these games usually sold in their completion for around 20 dollars an episode… except Jazz jackrabbit which had smaller episodes but I think it was only purchasable as a full pack for around 40 dollars.
I guess in the long run I’m saying 15 dollars for 4 zones isn’t horrible. At least not if you stick with shareware standards of the 90′s. But at the same time, you look at what you get compared to similar money in a Mario game and feel a bit ripped off.
Of course Mario games have always been a lot of bang for the buck. Compare Super Mario World to any Sonic game including the already episodically released 3+K and you’ll see that it trumps any two of them put together in terms of total content. That trend continues into today with 3D Mario games typically having 120 unique challenges, and generally they don’t stop pulling out new tricks until the very end.
At the same time though, the Mario series does suffer from that boss issue of the shareware games of the 90′s. Kinda hilarious when you think about it…
@ChaoticFox
Sorry, I started answering you just to start talking in general. I wasn´t refering to you
@Jonathan Rose
Yeah, I know how prices were back then, but I still can´t agree with the Episode 1 price. You know, Commander Keen and Jazz Jackrabbit had more polished and solid content that the one found in Sonic 4, specially for the time (yeah, they weren´t A+ titles but they were certainly good platforming ones). You always got 1st episode for free too, so you could clearly know if you really liked it playing a lot of different levels.
If Sonic 4 was a polished title, with nearly no gameplay bugs or glitches, solid gameplay, then I wouldn´t mind paying $15, even with exactly the same amount of content. But it´s short and it doesn´t have great quality, and yet it´s episodic. I really hope Episode 2 fixes most of those things, because it´s a pitty to waste the chance to launch a real Sonic 4 title.
@J.Rose
“I guess in the long run I’m saying 15 dollars for 4 zones isn’t horrible. At least not if you stick with shareware standards of the 90′s.”
Rittz already covered why that logic is “silly and muddy” a few comments back.
While your wall of text proves you are indeed quite knowledgeable, it does nothing to address the actual issue. Sure, you proved where the episodic mindset comes from, but you’ve done nothing to defend it – if that was your intention. So apparently episodic gaming hearkens back to the ancient art of shareware gaming… not really a gold standard as far as content or brilliant distribution strategies.
What does that prove, exactly?
@Sofox
You’re right, and I’m one of those people that wasn’t quite satisfied with ep. 1. I’m quite positive that I won’t buy any more episodes.