“These changes probably made for a different feel”
The latest issue of Nintendo Power includes another Q&A with Sonic Team head Takashi Iizuka. The magazine posed a question many fans would like to ask to his face: For a game called Sonic 4, why weren’t the hedgehog’s physics comparable to the original?
More specifically, according to scans obtained by TSSZ News via a News Tip, NP was a bit nicer, calling the execution “a bit off,” and inquiring if it will be tweaked in future episodes. It was the meat of discussion during that fan feedback session earlier this month in San Francisco, but ultimately it’s up to Iizuka. His response, in full:
In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running. These changes probably made for a different feel to the longtime Sonic fans. We’re happy for feedback like this, and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles. It is challenging to make everyone happy, as we have young fans, new fans, older fans, jump-’n'-run fans, retro fans, etc. We’re confident all of them do enjoy playing Sonic 4, though.
Iizuka went on to say fan voices, good and bad, are being heard by the developers, though a balance is being sought between “meeting those expections” and “providing new surprises.”
But some fans are not happy with the first two thirds of that response, with belief it amounts to a we’ll look into it reply. The effects can already be seen in our current poll, which shifted from a majority yay to plurality nay opinion over the Thanksgiving holiday. Has this changed your opinion on whether we’ll see substantive change in Sonic 4: Episode 2? Tell us in the comments section.
Before you do that, however, we invite you to read the Iizuka Q&A, in full, via scans provided by AugieD, who sent them in a news tip. It includes a meaty portion of Sonic Colors related news and notes, including whether we’ll see a sequel. They’re in our gallery below, and we thank him for sending them to us. If you have news to share, be sure to share it with us by clicking News Tips at the top of every page.
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The terrible fanbase use your power for sonic team create crap games.
If sega start ignore the haters and fanbase, sega create a good game.
Example?
SONIC COLORS!
@Lucas
Shut the fuck up, you are a retard. You are seriously telling a company to ignore its customers? Wow. Way to be a fucking retard, amigo.
Sega should just make Sonic Adventure 3. People don’t want crap like Sonic 4.
@Cog
I’m not whining that it isn’t “perfect” or “exactly the same” – I’m bitching because it was straight up NOT FUN. The controls were jarring and abhorrent, the level designs were a yawn-worthy joke, the level LAYOUTS were bland and uninspired, and the entire experience was more short-lived than an aborted fetus.
I might have eaten this shit up when I was 8, but not now. I’m a grown ass gamer and it takes an awfully high quality product to please me.
Mr. “Mind-numbingly Generic Platformer with Stiff Handling” simply isn’t going to cut it. I’ve had more fun with glitch-ridden and broken games Sonic games with insultingly ridiculous gimmicks than I’ve had with this underwhelming schlock of regurgitated mediocrity.
The main criticism about the game I have is that it’s too short. But it was £10 and is the first episode of a larger series. Despite its diminutive size I think I’ve played this longer than any of the Wii Sonic’s before Colours combined. You obviously played a different game to me because I managed to navigate Sonic around the levels without issue. Bland level layouts though? This wasn’t a one trick pony, they had multiple routes through which meant if you explored you could find huge short-cuts to skip through the regular path. Their design might be heavily inspired by previous games but no more than say New Super Mario Bros updated their classic environments.
The main difference of opinion I can see is you admitted to having fun with the dismal 3D Sonic games of the past while they’re the main reason I stopped being a SEGA zealot. Broken gameplay, falling through floors, a ridiculous number of horrible support characters, new and more abhorrent gimmicks each game (Werehog being the worst) and a general lack of quality. Compared to those disasters Sonic 4 is a pure breath of fresh air and I eagerly await episode two.
Oh ptthh. Who even cares about peoples’ complaints? It is obvious that SEGA has learned from their mistakes while making Sonic 4, and I am sure they have learned by the time they’re working on Episode 2 of the game.
This has been the best year for Sonic in ages, and you should be thankful for that.
Obvious my ass he basically calls Sonic 4 an improvement over Sonic 3&K. He hasn’t learned anything THIS is the guy that made Sonic 06 for fuck sake.
@Andre
YES, Nintendo is retard
Congratulations.
“Sega should just make Sonic Adventure 3. People don’t want crap like Sonic 4.”
We don’t need sonic 2006 part 2.
Thanks
Now we need sonic colors 2
ha!
Now we need sonic colors 2
No we don’t need more kiddy crap. Sonic games should be epic like the Sonic Adventure games.
“Sega should just make Sonic Adventure 3. People don’t want crap like Sonic 4.”
Please, speak your bullshit on YouTube, not on this site.
Why the hell would Sonic Adventure 3 be good? Because it’s called Sonic Adventure 3?
Hell, that’s what happened before Project Needlemouse was announced. People were saying “SEGA should make Sonic 4, we don’t want crap like Black Knight (or Unleashed or whatever)”
Guess what? Now a majority of those people complaining that SEGA needs to make a Sonic 4 HATES Sonic 4. Why? Because it’s mediocre, if not complete garbage. People originally thought Sonic 4 would succeed based off of the title alone. Now, they hate it for good reasons. What makes Sonic Adventure 3 any different from Sonic 4?
Sonic Adventure 3 is just a title, not an automatic assurance of a kickass game. Anything can be called Sonic Adventure 3. SEGA can just add another pointless gimmick that takes up the entire game, or just rush a game and release it in its beta form (hint, hint), and they would call that Sonic Adventure 3. For Christ’s sake, they can even re-release Sonic 06 (same glitches, gameplay, etc.) and slap “Sonic Adventure 3″ as the title of it. How would that make you feel? Terrible, wouldn’t it? And I bet if Sonic Team actually made a shitty Sonic Adventure 3, people would be saying “We need a Sonic Colors 2. People don’t want crap like Sonic Adventure 3.”
The fanbase is so fucking easy to predict. It’s like clockwork.
@Vulpine
The concept was great. A new 2D, console Sonic game? Why not? Drastically changed physics to the point that old school fans can barely play this? Why? And the word “changed” makes it seem they did it intentionally. They most likely didn’t. There are 2 scenarios:
1) They knew that the game didn’t play like the classics (new, schmew, if you’re going to call it Sonic 4, it better play like something called Sonic 4), but released it anyway, hoping it would sell and make them $$$, and therefore don’t deserve to be making a game called Sonic 4.
2) They thought it DID play like the classics, and patted each other on the back while releasing it while their copies of Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles (you know, the games they should’ve played to make sure Sonic 4 felt like them) sat on the shelves collecting dust, and therefore don’t deserve to make a game called Sonic 4.
To clarify, I enjoyed Sonic 4. After getting use to the physics, I found myself having fun with the game. The problem, however, is that I had to adjust to the physics like I had to adjust to a new planet. I shouldn’t have to do that!
Please, speak your bullshit on YouTube, not on this site
I’lll speak it whereever I want, you’re not the boss of me.
@Darkfox
“I’lll speak it whereever I want, you’re not the boss of me.”
I’m just going to assume you’ve only read the first sentence. XD
“No we don’t need more kiddy crap. Sonic games should be epic like the Sonic Adventure games.”
That’s actually really funny. Sure, the Adventure series were fantastic when they were first released, but they have aged horribly, especially Adventure 1. And what makes them “epic”? Storyline? Sure, the storylines were epic when they were first created, but nearly every 3D Sonic game after that started going into “hardcore” plots just like those games, and the plots were terrible.
It was either A). Sonic and friends fight Eggman, he summons random monster of the week, Eggman is betrayed, Sonic defeats monster, done. B) Sonic is trapped in a book, he fights someone other than Eggman, done. C) Other off-the-wall-crap, like Shadow must remember his cursed past by finding the seven chaos emeralds for space aliens that pops out of nowhere with little to no relevance to SA2 plotline. These storylines were so cliche and overused to the point where was predictible and anti-climatic, especially since Super Sonic (or some other form like Super Sonic) always fights the final boss after gathering plot-required Chaos Emeralds that he always loses after every game for some reason.
The Sonic Colors plot was written by the Madworld script writers, and it worked. It was short and simple, as well as an easy break from completely cliche story elements. Sure, there are a few corny jokes that makes it child-friendly, but isn’t that what Sonic is? Sonic isn’t Master Chief for crying out loud. He’s more like Mario or Mickey Mouse, a child-friendly mascot. If you’re too self-conscious about Sonic the Hedgehog being too child-friendly, I question why you’re even a fan to begin with.
Besides, how is Sonic Colors NOT epic!? What about quick-stepping across platforms on the construction site of Planet Wisp while Aero Chasers are firing lasers at you, what about running on Celestial roadways around a fleet of colorful battleships while racing against Motobugs, what about homing attacking asteroids before landing and boosting across a planent’s rings in Asteroid Coaster, what about boosting and escaping from a black hole/purple implosion sucking in everything in its path in Terminal Velocity?
If all that isn’t epic, I don’t know what is…
A mix between meeting expectations and introducing new surprises?
HOW ABOUT MEETING EXPECTATIONS FIRST!?
*reads Iizuka’s comment about physics*
Wow…..That’s……
….That’s just sad.
Does he really think he could get away with an excuse like that? I don’t even think he knows what he’s doing anymore with this franchise. Then again, this is the same guy who wanted Shadow to have his own franchise as mentioned in a Nintendo Power issue I have (can’t remember which volume). Look how that turned out. >_>
@Cog
The controls weren’t broken to the point of unplayability. I too was able to navigate most of the levels without issue. My point was that those same controls, while “passable”, were quite unpleasant and sucked nearly all of the fun out of the classic Sonic formula. The ORIGINAL TRILOGY would not have been ONE THIRD as fun if they had been made with the same physics as Sonic 4. Those physics are what make Sonic Sonic. They are a substantial part of what made the original trilogy good, and separated them from EVERY OTHER GENERIC PLATFORM GAME EVER MADE.
Without them, what have you got? Loop-de-loops, scripted springs, an unnecessary homing attack that adds NOTHING substantial to the gameplay (although the non-targeted air dash was admittedly quite nice), and the frequent abuse of boost pads. Greeeeeeeeeat game design…
In order to accommodate these lousy new physics and Iizuka’s laughable vision of Sonic playability, level designs had to be changed. Sure, there are multiple paths. But not nearly as many, and the levels aren’t nearly as open to exploration, nor do they really reward it. I think back to levels like Marble Garden, which was more like a Labyrinth than Labyrinth zone… now there was an example of platforming level design at its FINEST. Sonic 4′s level designs feel like child’s play in comparison. They’re mostly straight lines moving in the same direction, separated into simplistic tiers. The one level that actually requires some thought to navigate: Lost Labyrinth 3 is ruined by its own gimmick. I don’t mind moving slowly, but removing my ability to see? How on earth is THAT supposed to be FUN? The puzzles were asinine – the whole thing just detracted any possible enjoyment I could have found in the zone’s design.
You can reference NSMB all day long, but at least that game felt fresh and new (not to mention substantial and complete), despite re-using old themes. This one felt like a bastardization of its own history, and an incomplete joke of an attempt at “new” content. Sure, it’s only the first episode… but I’m not going to judge a game by its sequels’ potential.
Don’t get me wrong, I am by no means one of the cliche “modern” fans who thoroughly enjoy all of the newer Sonic games, flaws and all. I’ve hated many of them, and I hold their own flaws against them as critically as I do this game. The difference is: despite their flaws, there are some things they do right – there are moments of pleasure to be found when playing SOME of them.
For me, this is not true of Sonic 4 – butchering the fundamental aspect of the game, its physics – the primary reason I enjoyed classic Sonic in the first place – makes the entire experience underwhelming and difficult to enjoy. I might be more forgiving of the level design, the recycled material, the awful synth tone to the otherwise great music, and the game in general if they had managed to get the most important part right.
My personal belief has always been that if you make a game fun to PLAY, you can get away with underachieving in every other way. Make me loathe the very way my character moves, and you’d better offer me the holy grail of level design to make up for it. Sonic Team and Dimp failed on both counts. They made Sonic control more rigidly and unpleasantly than even the worst fan-made flash game, and their level designs, while not abysmal, were merely “decent” at their absolute best, and forgettable more often than not.
@Lucas
Yeah, once Sega manages to achieve Nintendo’s reputation for years and years of treating their brand mascot with amazing games and critical praise, you can compare the companies. Right now, you don’t. Because Sega has NEVER listened to the fans, and look at the fucking mess. Their only hope right now is to start listening, because NOT listening has not made Sonic games comparable to Mario games.
So just being clear here: you either help Sega make better Sonic games, or you go fuck yourself. If you want to play crappy Sonic games just like the ones Sega always did, get the fuck out and your wish will be granted. In the meantime, go get your head examined, maybe take some vitamins or something. You’re not thinking straight.
@Wilford111
“A mix between meeting expectations and introducing new surprises?
HOW ABOUT MEETING EXPECTATIONS FIRST!?”
Exactly. How simple can this be, REALLY??? The people at Sega Japan must be DEMENTED, that’s no other way of saying this. They must be fucking RETARDED.
Sega, if you want to listen, FUCKING LISTEN!!!
@ChaotixFox
Let’s just face it, if you mix Sonic 4 Ep. 1 with a shitload of glitches and invisible walls, you’ve got Sonic 06 in its shining, 2D glory. XD
@ChaoticFox
After the Adventure games I got sick and tired of being burned with the rubbish quality of 3D Sonic. Sonic 06 was undoubtedly the worst. Unleashed was only good for a handful of levels before the “classic” gameplay became infuriating and the less said about the Werehog the better. Sonic 4 was the first Sonic game in ages to get me excited. I really enjoyed it as a return to form for the series. The Advance games were a joke and Rush was good but a different animal altogether. I don’t think Sonic 4′s gameplay is bad, just different.
But you mean to tell me that you got more fun from Sonic 06 than Sonic 4?
It’s funny, Sonic 4 seems to be getting panned by fans as the worst game ever while it’s been reviewed fairly well overall. I remember not so long ago game critics panning Sonic games and the community leaping to their defence.
I’m not defending Sonic 06. That game is an abomination and I like to pretend that it never happened. If you’ll re-read my post, I even bothered to emphasize the fact that only SOME of the modern games are worth playing.
Way to entirely miss the point though. I’m not at all trying to promote or defend the 3D games, or even discuss them. You’re making a colossal deal out of a throwaway point I made about how SOME of the modern games still provide the occasional thrill that Sonic 4 never ever delivers.
I’m trying to point out why Sonic 4 is barely mediocre from even the most generous standpoint, not that the 3D games are marvelous achievements. Seriously, learn to read.
Granted, Sonic 4 was one of the first Sonic games in years to get me excited as well… but that excitement wore off and was replaced by massive disappointment before the end of Splash Hill 3. Return to form? If by “form” your only standard of judgment is side-scrolling platforming. Because that’s essentially where the similarities end.
If I may ask, how exactly were the Advance games were a joke? To be perfectly honest, while not my favorite games, I feel they did a better job of “returning to form” than Sonic 4 did, taking into consideration that they are GBA games and not home console releases. Comparing Sonic 4 to the classics is like comparing Duplo Blocks to Lego, with the Advance games being some form of… K’nex or something in between.
@Cog
It was another part of the community, though. That’s for sure.
So here: Sonic 4 is being panned by the retro fans. Such as myself. Because it was promised to be a game developed with us in mind, and in the end it fucking wasn’t. It was a dirty lie. I was there when Project Needlemouse was announced, since day one. It all amounts to one big fucking lie. That’s why retro fans are mad.
The other games that were panned by critics had the new Sonic fans jumping to their defense. Because they will swallow anything with Sonic branded on it, so that’s about it. They love the shitty characters more than they love the games themselves. Meanwhile, retro fans were in the shadows playing classic games and getting pissed at the Sonic Cycle. Because yeah, do you think the new fans were the ones to come up with the Sonic Cycle?
@Cog
After I played Sonic 4, I immediately played Sonic Advance 1, guess what?
I had a much more fun experience with a much better game.
@ChaoticFox
I was just curious if you could find something redeemable about probably one of the worst games this generation, it being a 3D sonic game and all. Back on form for Sonic is not sucking. Sales and Metacritic agree Sonic 4 isn’t the spawn of satan it’s being made out to be here. I think Sonic 4 is good and I thought we could have a nice debate about it as I don’t understand the hate it’s gotten. Instead the insults start to fly.
@Andre
Swearing gets you nowhere
@krazeeKidd102
Good for you. I played Sonic 4 with a smile on my face and thought “Well this is better than Advance.” No, actually I didn’t even think of Advance thanks to how boring I’d found them; something to do with a music level from a mid 90’s “me too” mascot game. I don’t even care.
SEGA made the Sonic game you all have waited for 16+ years from now, yet you still hate it and complain about it? What’s wrong with you all?
I thought Sonic 4 was a nice successor to the classics. After all, there is nothing wrong with Sonic games, both classic and modern, anyway.
Then again, each and every Sonic fan has different views on what games they like, so stop fighting and cussing at each other about it. Okay?
Stop the flame war immediately!
@Cog
Insults? I asked with an admittedly irritated tone to go back read what I wrote, because your reply sounded as if you hadn’t, or as if you had chosen to completely ignore it.
As for redeemable qualities of 06, I have to say: I liked some of the music. lol. The cutscenes are also gorgeous, despite the fact that I am not at all a fan of the story they tell.
As far as sales are concerned, I’m not sure how much that really counts… Initially, there were loads of us who spent money on this game purely due to the hype preceding it, only to be later disappointed. Sales aren’t a very accurate measurement of how good a game is, only how well marketed and hyped it is. Not to mention it’s a SONIC game, something we all know will be swallowed by the millions, no matter how bad it is (Sonic 06 is a platinum hit, after all).
I don’t think Sonic 4 is the Spawn of Satan. I don’t think it’s the worst game ever. I think it’s forgettable. Underwhelming. Disappointing. Unimpressive. It doesn’t stand out as “good” in any way shape or form. It’s competent at best, but it misses the mark for me in pretty much every category, with the controls being so unpleasant (for me) that it mars the rest of the experience entirely.
The hate is mostly due to that disappointment. It’s not that the game is BAD, but that it could have been SO MUCH BETTER. The physics are awful, which ruins the whole thing for a lot of us, but really our problems lie in the fact that this game could have… nay, SHOULD have been GREAT. Instead, all we got was “meh”.
@Vulpine.
Shut up about what you don’t know. This ISN’T the game that a lot of (dare I say most of?) us wanted. The only thing it has in common with what we wanted is the title.
If you had asked me or anyone else complaining about Sonic 4 what they would have wanted from a sequel to S3K, it would literally be NOTHING AT ALL LIKE what we’ve gotten.
@ChaoticFox
Exactly! No matter how you go around deciding whether or not the game is bad, the fact that it could’ve been so much better is blatantly obvious!! IGN AU knew what they were talking about when they put it on their Top 10 Dissapointments of 2010.
@Vulpine
Other than what ChaoticFox said in response to you, I laugh at the so-called claim that every single Sonic fan waited 16 years for a sequel to Sonic 3&K.
Besides, why can’t we speak up for ourselves. It’s our opinion on the game and the events surrounding it, just like it’s your opinion that we need to stop fighting. We’re allowed to agree with others, disagree with others, and speak our mind. THERE’S A REASON WHY THIS IS A FREAKING COMMENT SECTION!!!
Bull.
Nintendo Power fails, Sonic could double jump in Sonic R, and it was released on GameCube so they had to have played it.
@Vulpine
“2D console Sonic game”. If we had to use only 4 words to explain what we wanted from SEGA, then yes, that’s what we would’ve said, and yeah, SEGA hit the mark. Too bad those 4 words don’t explain what we want in every shape and form. Unfortunately, they’re all what SEGA heard, and hyped the game on those 4 words alone. What set Sonic apart from every platformer in existence are the awesome physics. When those physics are butchered, what are we left with? What would’ve been called a “Sonic wannabe” if it didn’t have the word Sonic in the title.
I always laugh to myself when I hear “Sonic 4 is the sequel you’ve been waiting 16 years for.” Fans probably only expected a sequel to S3&K for about two years until the announcement of Sonic Xtreme which was canned back in 96′. Sonic 4 is not a bad game, after all its sonic in his classic 2d roots, but its definitely not a sequel. I see Sonic 4, well at least episode 1 as an official Sega remix of Sonic 1&2. Sega didn’t in any way, shape, or form improve upon the ideas in S3&K but instead just rehashed the bosses and levels from Sonic 1&2 with new music and altered physics. I mean they didn’t even come up with a unique title screen and just copy and pasted it directly from Sonic 1. Sonic 4 is a fun game that FAILS at being the successor to S3&K that Sega promised.
@Slasenger
“He hasn’t learned anything THIS is the guy that made Sonic 06 for fuck sake.”
No, genious. Shun Nakamura made Sonic 06
@krush96
Who cares who’ve made it? It was rushed and unfinished.
Everyone.
Calm down.
Dearest Dimps,
What happened? You made Sonic the Hedgehog Pocket Adventure, the first competent handheld Sonic game, Sonic Advance 1-3, the somewhat lacking, but still quite playable handheld follow-ups, Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure, the different, but fresh take on the Sonic formula… Then you made Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I, that horrible, horrible experiment. Following that, you developed the 3DS incarnation of Sonic Generations, a game that could have been better, but had at least comparable physics and level design (sprinkled here and there). You must be going through a dark time in your life. You must be feeling confused, and disoriented. Are you feeling okay? Do you want to talk about it? I’m here for you whenever you need me. I believe in you. Please write me soon!
Your pal,
BFG
PS – I hope you don’t mind I slept with your sister… It just kind of happened. Sorry.