“These changes probably made for a different feel”
The latest issue of Nintendo Power includes another Q&A with Sonic Team head Takashi Iizuka. The magazine posed a question many fans would like to ask to his face: For a game called Sonic 4, why weren’t the hedgehog’s physics comparable to the original?
More specifically, according to scans obtained by TSSZ News via a News Tip, NP was a bit nicer, calling the execution “a bit off,” and inquiring if it will be tweaked in future episodes. It was the meat of discussion during that fan feedback session earlier this month in San Francisco, but ultimately it’s up to Iizuka. His response, in full:
In this title, we have not done a straight port of the gameplay [from the Genesis games], but rather updated it with actions which could not be done in the previous titles, like ceiling-running. These changes probably made for a different feel to the longtime Sonic fans. We’re happy for feedback like this, and we’ll make sure we can improve the quality even further in upcoming titles. It is challenging to make everyone happy, as we have young fans, new fans, older fans, jump-’n'-run fans, retro fans, etc. We’re confident all of them do enjoy playing Sonic 4, though.
Iizuka went on to say fan voices, good and bad, are being heard by the developers, though a balance is being sought between “meeting those expections” and “providing new surprises.”
But some fans are not happy with the first two thirds of that response, with belief it amounts to a we’ll look into it reply. The effects can already be seen in our current poll, which shifted from a majority yay to plurality nay opinion over the Thanksgiving holiday. Has this changed your opinion on whether we’ll see substantive change in Sonic 4: Episode 2? Tell us in the comments section.
Before you do that, however, we invite you to read the Iizuka Q&A, in full, via scans provided by AugieD, who sent them in a news tip. It includes a meaty portion of Sonic Colors related news and notes, including whether we’ll see a sequel. They’re in our gallery below, and we thank him for sending them to us. If you have news to share, be sure to share it with us by clicking News Tips at the top of every page.
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Its really simple people either you enjoy it or you don’t.
I have come to genuinely despise Iizuka.
as someone who loved the Classic Sonics to death and considers Sonic 3&K his favourite game of all time, Sonic 4 was a dissapointment: bad physics check, shitty retro music check, rehash of old badniks levels bosses special stages check, removal of short transition between levels check, SEGA is just afraid to try to improve the game and make it feel like a sequel rather than an HD remake
You really should mention that ceiling-running was used in a few zones in Sonic 2 and 3&K such as Casino Night and Mushroom Hill. The entire team working on 4 has no idea how the old games were designed and Iizuka continues to provide proof of this.
The Colors team should do Episode 3, they seem more than capable of designing something original while capturing the spirit of the older games. The Sonic 1 layouts in Color’s Sonic Sim stages show they have been studying the old designs.
I have to wonder if Takashi Iizuka is just trolling us at this point, or if he’s genuinely hoping to capitalize on the fact it’s been over 10 years since the last Sega Genesis Sonic game and figuring nobody remembers how those games used to play.
Then again, maybe he himself doesn’t remember how those games used to play.
It’s funny how they “updated” it with stuff like “ceiling running” when Sonic can’t even run on the ceiling with those physics unless he steps on one of the tens of thousands of speed boosters everywhere, along with the fact that the player would have to constantly hold forward OTHERWISE HE WOULD STOP LIKE A FUCKING DIME NO MATTER HOW FAST HE IS!!!
Christ, where the fuck is Yuji Naka to bitchslap some sense in this shithead!?
Oh dear. Methinks Episode 2 will probably not be good…
Anyone else up for Sonic Colors 2?
Dear Iizuka,
Can’t wait til you retire.
Love, Nomad.
Try to appeal to everyone.
End up appealing to no one.
Now that I’m looking at this a second time, Iizuka is basically saying “Hey, these physics aren’t bad! They ARE the Genesis physics, just UPDATED!! They feel different, SO GET USED TO THEM!!!!! Hurr hurr hurr”
Jesus, the entire team has absolutely no idea what the fuck they are doing!!! But instead of looking into feedback and playing the actual classic titles or at least TRY to make future episodes better, they pass it on to Dimps and creates “Sonic Rush w/o boost button”. And this guy actually has the nerve to tell us “They’re different. Deal with it.”
You know what: I wouldn’t be surprised if they kept rehashing zones and enemies from classic titles. The whole “Ep 1 for nostalgia” crap could be a lie as well. They’ll probably repeat the excuse for ep2 and 3 and so on.
If anyone at SEGA is reading this, just cancel the whole Sonic 4 project. Don’t waste your time humiliating yourself even further. Just keep making games like Colors. Otherwise, don’t shit all over the classic titles by making this “sequel” that “fans have waited 16 years for” Aka Easy Profit Boomer #3 Or better yet, hire the developers of Sonic Fan Remix to do your job for you. Hell, you already invite plane trips and throw parties for people that bash your games. It shouldn’t be too difficult to give jobs for two people that can beat BOTH the Sonic Team and Dimps development teams. Am I right!? AM I MOTHERFUCKING RIGHT!!!!????
The best part? The classic titles appealed to everyone just fine. Yet they insist on ‘fixing’ what isn’t broken.
Make any sense? Of course not. It’s pretty obvious the me the only reason why it doesn’t play like it should is because they’re not really focusing on it as much as they main Sonic titles. Hence, the outsourcing to Dimps.
This is just Iizuka saving PR face. Sad, but true.
Dimps early works had the classic physics it’s not like they never worked with them before, either they don’t care for them anymore or Iizuka is holding them back.
@Eggfang
I kind of want to blame the graphics. I wonder if it’s even possible for the 2.5D Sonic model to appropriately emulate the pixel-precise Genesis physics.
He sounds like a goddamn polition. Everyone enjoyed it? FUCK YOU!
@ to everyone bashing on Iizuka
Again I say it either you enjoy it or don’t enjoy it at all otherwise you should stop playing Sonic 4 and get on with the rest of your life people.
@ChaoticFox
It can be done. Just look at Sonic Fan Remix. It´s not exactly the same but it´s not as far from classic gameplay like Sonic 4 is.
Seriously, Iizuka should just shut up and listen a little more. I know laugh over those quotes that said “Sega is now hearing us”, “Sega is making this for the fans”, “Sega is doing Sonic 4 since 16 years ago”.
LOL!!!
Sonic 4 is a good game, go ahead and bash it all you want fanboys because no matter what you say it will never change the fact that it’s a good game.
Complain about the soundtrack, the music is catchy and has a nice beat to it, it’s not bad.
Complain about the zones, I see no problems with classic throwbacks.
Complain about the physics, why not complain about why our noses are on our faces instead of on our butts? Because that actually makes more cense to complain about.
Sonic Fans they only live to complain, that’s why they’re the laughing stock of the gaming community, make Sonic look like a joke and are a complete waste of human resources…. and life.
And this is why SEGA should give up on catering to the retro crowd and focus on “going forward”.
@RaggtimeSonic
………please…….don’t get me started on you……..
Man , Sonic 4 need a title ONLY FOR FANS
ONLY!
If Iizuka want new fans, only continue the good work with 3D titles aka Sonic Colors.
Ohhhh yes.
I finished Donkey Kong Country Returns and THIS is a example of what we seek.
I lol at the Iizuka hatred. Why would he not say good things about the games he’s directed? I’ve not seen ONE game developer who’s come right out and said they’re games were crap.
Last time I checked, ceiling running wasn’t exactly advertised as such. Does he really think that these physics feel more modern, or more advanced that the classics? And even if they WERE more advanced (which they’re not), does that make them more fun? I think I’m going to go play it and answer that question myself.
Sigh.
@Raggtime:
You sound like Flamerstreak from the Sonic 4 forums, and his posts made my blood boil.
It’s perfectly fine to like Sonic 4 (as I do) but to not acknowledge that it has issues is blind fanboyism even worse than saying there’s a problem with EVERYTHING in it.
@Haru
My only problem with sonic 4 are two essential parts:
1 – Physics
2 – the instrumentation of the music (the music itself is good)
The level design, graphics, the sprites are ok.
Did…did Iizuka just say that the he thinks the Sonic 4 Physics are BETTER than the old sonic games? Seriously? I…I don’t get it.
@KMetal
Good point.
@Ragtime
Did you just call the people who hate Sonic 4 fanboys? Where does that even BEGIN to make sense?
@Informer
Again, I say, you can either agree with us or don’t, stop worrying about our comments and go on with your life. Your comments are arguably an even bigger waste of time than ours.
@Monic
Saying positive things about your game is fine. Being an arrogant and narrow minded ass with an idiotically ignorant vision of your franchise and constantly making nonsensical comments that range from the flat-out untrue to unreasonably stupid is why some of us (me) have grown to hate him.
@Lucas
That was the most intelligible post you have ever made! Congratulations!
…okay, I’m done XD
tought this one was only for us ‘classic sonic fans’. Oh well, still like sonic 4 ^^
The only thing I hear is: “we don’t have any idea why the original games are good! Take this shit. Deal with it”
Sonic 4 is good, since adventure 2 we don’t have any game (exclude advanced) good.
But sonic 4 need fix all errors and put the “GLORY BACK”.
There really wasn’t any excuse for no momentum based physics. I’m not really mad at Sega, and I did enjoy Episode 1 A LOT!, but the momentum based physics added a lot of depth and natural feel to the gameplay, which is what makes the classics so much fun to play over and over!
Just fix the physics guys, just do it
@Dino
Exactly!
@Jakeiiii
The reason why the classics aged so well was because of the physics (and the emphasis on exploration, of course). 5 years from now, I doubt we’re going to look back at this game and say, “this was a great game”. Especially if Episode 2 doesn’t feel like Sonic Rush 4 – 1.
Sega, please, you must forbid Iizuka of speaking, for God’s sake.
The physics are an abortion just like the entire Sonic 4 Episode I is, why not accept the facts?
Physics where you can walk up hills, loops, stand on slopes, slow down when spindashing and can’t run fast without a boost pad’s aid is obviously awful, not “different”.
Considering plethora of crap Sonic games released after the end of the Sega console era until very recently, I thought that people might view Sonic 4 with a less critical eye considering the fact that it’s actually a good Sonic game. So Iizuka is flapping his gums again, who cares? The point is the physics in Sonic 4 are different from the old games but they suit the game they are in.
@krazeeKidd102
You are 100% RIGHT!!!
@Iizuka
PLEASE RETIRE.
@Cog
No, they don’t, especially talking about a sequel to the classics…
What the heck, Iizuka — that’s not what they meant by physics changes and you know it. Ceiling-running was the laziest excuse I have ever heard; we all know you could do it in the Genesis games. For God’s sake, man, why can’t you ever just own up to your mistakes?
Grow some humility already!!
@Cog
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Sonic 4 does would not have good physics, even if it were called Bricky, the Block of Solid Lead.
I don’t care that it’s a sequel with DIFFERENT physics so much as I care that it is a bad game with BAD physics, no matter what you call it.
@Cog
“The point is the physics in Sonic 4 are different from the old games but they suit the game they are in.”
…….Are you Takashi Iizuka…?
Seriously, the physics are in fact different from the old games, but that still doesn’t change the fact that they DON’T fit in a game titled (oh, I don’t know) “Sonic the Hedgehog 4″.
I’m a younger fan (newschool), yet all I have to do is play the first act of Sonic 1 on WiiWare and immediately tell that Sonic 4 Ep 1 has absolutely no sense of friction or momentum. The physics are exactly the same (if not worse) than Sonic Rush’s physics, not to mention that many parts of the stages’ level designs are based off of Sonic Rush level design, and speed boosters everywhere to make up for the boost button.
I’m not saying Sonic Rush is bad. I love Sonic Rush, but I can tell you that Sonic 4 Episode 1 is “meh” at best. The “hold-right” level design and Rush physics makes it feel too awkward to be a decent platformer, and at the same time, the complex platforming bits make it too flow-breaking to be a exhilarating speed-based game.
Sonic Advance can easily be more of a “Sonic 4″ than this. Even Sonic Colors on the console feels more like the classics than Sonic 4. A good mix of platforming and skill and speed-based level design that isn’t constantly flow-breaking.
If Sonic Team is going to improve Sonic 4, they need to try harder to capture the feel of the original games instead of letting Dimps do the dirty work with little budget.
I really don’t get what everyone is so mad about. Aside from the part about the ceiling running (why is that even worth bringing up anyway?) everything that he said is 100% true. He did say that the physics are different, and they are! It’s not like he downright denied that fact. Plus, do really expect him to just come blurt out negative things about his own project. Like someone else said, no one ever does that. I mean geez! The guy is just being human.
TSSZ’s Next Poll:
Should Iizuka lay off the PR?
@krush96
The physics are indeed different, but are they good? I guess not.
@Haru Sonic 4 does have problems I’ll admit and no game is perfect in any way, but the whole damn game isn’t a problem. The only REAL problem with Sonic 4 is the faggoty ass fanbase that SEGA keeps trying to please, they’d have a better chance of stacking cheese wheels in a tornado while on stilts before the fanbase can be happy with a game… even Sonic Colors (which I can’t explain).
@RaggtimeSonic
Oh yeah, cause the fanbase have to accept any crap Sega make, otherwise they are all faggots…
Maybe they should move Sega’s headquarters to Europe or the US…
At least they make an effort to listen to us here.
I do, however, remain very suspicious. At a glance, it may seem that Iizuka is incompetent. Though this could actually be because of bad communication between SOA and SOJ. But is not the first time somrthing like this has happened. Mabey the feedback from the session hasn’t gotten to Iizuka yet. If not, it needs to get to him, ASAP.
Rush was one of the better Sonic games of recent times but that’s only when you embrace the “boost” part of the gameplay and keep moving at all times. Any serious platforming started to expose the games weaknesses. Sonic 4 has a huge number of actual platforming sections that require you to use skill rather than just speed past as quickly as possible. Anyone hoping for Sonic 4 to be an exact clone of the old games was setting themselves up for a fall and all I see here is a bunch of people whining about how the game isn’t *perfect*. I’ll go out on a limb and say Sonic 4 is my favourite Sonic game of the last 10 years. Even if it hasn’t reached the unattainable goal of perfection people have lost sight of what a departure the game is from the garbage we’ve seen like Sonic 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight and Unleashed. SEGA have finally put together a great looking homage to the old-skool and all you lot do is bitch.
What’s so bad about the physics in Sonic 4? In the game I remember playing Sonic was controllable enough to never cause me a problem while running, jumping, using the homing attack and stopping dead ( A far cry from the 3D Sonic skittering around levels like he is constantly on ice). The levels were either funnelling you through breakneck rollercoaster action and even managed to slow you down for the tricky parts. Cries of “hold right to win” are unfounded as almost every level has you doing something new be it navigating rotating playing cards, finding places to light with your torch or speedily navigating an obstacle course to avoid “impending doom”. Try just holding right through that, fools. Other Sonic games; Advance and Rush are both guilty of letting you fall into endless pits of doom without even a warning of platforming. They’re also guilty of funnelling you into enemies at high speed with no time to react. The fast bits in Sonic 4 have no such problem. It’s a delight to race from challenge to challenge without fear of a cheaply placed badnik. Maybe I’m just awesome but I don’t remember any cheap deaths apart from the very last boss fight.
@Ryu1908 SEGA DON’T MAKE CRAP!!!!! That’s what I’m talking about, all you people think SEGA only makes Sonic games so everything thats NOT Sonic related is automatically crap as well such as Jet Set Radio, Chu Chu Rocket, Space Channel 5, Samba de Amigo, Valkyria Chronicles, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Crazy Taxi, Yakuza, Phantasy Star, MadWorld.
All of this is all just SEGA’s crap to you? That’s why I hate this fanbase SEGA doesn’t only make Sonic games so don’t just say “Sonic sucks so SEGA sucks, even the good games I’m not even going to pay attention to”, They’ll never be happy with what anything they do. SEGA donates to find a cure for cancer, they get hunted down and lynched. SEGA helps the starving kids of the world, they get their HQ burned down. I’m not saying that they WILL do these things (because nobody has) but if they did you’ll all still find some way to make their good deeds look like crimes against humanity.
I mean every word of this, I’m just saddened that I’m one of the few SMART ones left in this train wreck we call a “fanbase”.