“Negativity is the new positivity, and I’m so unbelievably sick of it”
Congratulations, green eye shunners and the more vitriolic Sonic purists among us; you have claimed your first major casualty of conflict, and we’re fairly certain it was far from what you desired to see die.
The webmaster of classic Sonic game guide website Sonic Zone: 0 announced yesterday that he will discontinue regular work on the website after completing guides for Sonic & Knuckles. The site is a mini-encyclopedia of sorts for Sonic’s 16 bit era with an emphasis of strategy playthroughs, visuals, and trivia tidbits. It will continue to remain online “for as long as I am capable of hosting it,” says webmaster LiQuidShade in his announcement. But going forward, he will not seek additional writers, and elements like its forum will eventually be shut down.
An array of reasons are cited for the departure, including time constraints, family, and consideration of future projects. The one LiQuidShade wrote at most length about, though, was the state of the Sonic community:
As I say, there’s many factors to this decision though, and my reduced enthusiasm for Zone: 0 seems to correlate with.. well, I suppose it’s more of a changing relationship with Sonic as a whole. I can’t deny, Sonic pretty much equates to a kind of religion to me, in terms of the amount of time I spend just thinking and internally debating about it. Any other type of game can only be so much fun, and for me, none compare to Sonic at his best. But it’s not even the quality of the modern games as much as the sheer amount of resistance to them all over the internet, and most hurtfully, from the most outspoken fans themselves that slowly chips away at my love of Sonic. I feel like I no longer want to be a part of any community that, once united by love of something, is now held together only by constant arguments about what that thing should be, and even more disturbing, a mutual hatred of whatever that thing currently is. I may have had my own criticisms to make now and then, but I genuinely feel things are moving on toward a better level of quality now in terms of the games themselves. It’s unmistakable. It may not be perfect yet, but it’s all going in the right direction, and to see supposed fans fail to acknowledge this and continually complain over and over again, as if they’re beginning to get some enjoyment out of it, depresses me frankly. A lot.
Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, and maybe I’m just a bit too soft, but it’s not just in Sonic, there’s a worrying trend I’m noticing throughout popular culture. Everyone’s a critic and what’s more, they love it. Negativity is the new positivity, and I’m so unbelievably sick of it, but for something as close to me as Sonic, it’s all too much to take. I’d rather ignore the comments, reviews and debates, (much of them, as they are, over the most trivial of things) entirely and get back to enjoying Sonic as I used to do as a child, and with some degree of wild-eyed innocence. At least then, any gripes I have will be my own, and not those pointed out by others and which honestly wouldn’t have really bothered me until they had done so. To some extent, Zone: 0 still kind of connects me to their endless nit-pickings, although I admit it’s hardly the central hub of current Sonic affairs. Still, I would feel some degree of relief from it for these reasons, and I do rather want to prove to myself that it’s still possible in this day and age to be as big a Sonic fan as ever while having little or no connection or awareness of other fans, online or otherwise. Put simply: I want out of the Sonic community.
LiQuidShade said he is proud of the progress Zone:0 has produced; the site launched in early 2009. He thanked those who gave him, in his words, “positivity” to get the place where it is now.
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The asshole side of the Sonic fanbase ruins yet another aspect of Sonic fandom.
Every fanbase has this kind of douchebagggery going on inside of it thats tearing people apart, but the Sonic fanbase is the worst of them all. I’m not calling anybody out but this is the first time I actually heard of a Sonic fan wanting out of the community because of the other fans, I can ignore all this Sonic fanbase static that’s going on but it appears that some people can only take so much.
The breakdowns like this from old diehard fans is amusing, they can’t cope with that game being mediocre, the fell for the marketing of it being the true sequel and refuse to accept it’s meh-ness like religious zealots. I feel for LiQuidShade but he needs to live and learn
Shame on Sega for using and abusing people’s emotions with Project Needlemouse.
I only knew nice and pleasefull fans till I found sfghq and sonic retro.
(I don’t mean everybody of course)
@RaveToTheGrave
People that can’t accept the asshole side of the Sonic fanbase ruin yet another aspect of Sonic fandom all by themselves.
He’s shutting his web site down because there are actually people out there (myself included) who believe Sonic is definitely still going in the wrong direction. Some people disagree with him, so he shuts his site down. That’s sad and pathetic. It really is too bad we can’t live in a world filled with lollipop trees and rivers of strawberry milk like this guy expects.
Maybe he needs to realize the obvious reason the fan base used to be so united — the games prior to 2001 were of a much higher quality, especially in the early to mid 90′s. There’s was practically no denying it back then – Sonic was awesome. Young people will always be ignorant of this simply because they didn’t grow up with it. While a lot of us were enjoying Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the Genesis as kids, most of the people who now think games like Sonic Unleashed are awesome weren’t even close to being born yet.
Think the past games are worse than the new ones all you want — there’s a reason Sonic was still a big name by the time your crappy 3D games started coming out in 2003. The GOOD games put Sonic on the board. Back in the old days, there was practically no such thing as a bad review when it came to Sonic.
If you ask me, this guy needs to stop hating on Sonic purists, because we have every reason to dislike Sonic and want him back to his true roots, rather than a Sonic with horrible voice acting and dismal gameplay with Sesame Street dialogue. To suggest that anyone disliking the direction of Sonic with legit reasoning is some sort of troll who’s just playing Devil’s Advocate is extremely ignorant and immature. I would look at this LiQuidShade guy and tell him to grow up, personally.
::As always, doesn’t bother to stick around to get jumped by 35 fanboys who feel personally attacked by anything I just said about their new, precious Sonic games.::
Oh look, more snark! If this is your idea of “lightening up”, Tristan, you’ve sure got your head screwed on awful backwards.
Ceejus, shut the fuck up. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but you’re completely unjustified in attacking LiQuidShade. The dude’s choosing to shut his website down because he doesn’t like the type of people in connects him to IN ADDITION TO A LIST OF OTHER PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE REASONS that simply do not require as elaborate an explanation.
Is it really that sad and pathetic to leave a room when 75% of the people in it annoy you, especially if you have more pressing engagements outside the room? The quality of modern vs classic games is completely irrelevant. He’s not telling anyone they don’t have a right to their opinions, he’s merely saying he doesn’t care to hear it anymore.
Unless there’s more than the quote being posted here: this guy has in no way insinuated that everyone/anyone with a negative opinion is merely a troll playing devil’s advocate. He’s not hating on Sonic purists, either. Big deal, he’s sick of the endless whining from certain people. Be a purist all you like, but if all your purist fanboyism does is cause you to bitch about it on the internet 24/7, you may as well just move the fuck on and find another series to wank over.
Ironic that you’ve chosen not to stick around to hear what people who feel personally attacked have to say, considering your post seems written entirely out of some personal offense you seem to have taken from the guy’s statement.
@ChaoticFox
Tristan is just taking after his new buddy Jim Sterling. Not joking everything Jim writes about Sonic has the same snark against the fans that Tristan has been using lately. “baw they don’t like green eyes herf derf” is classic Jim.
Ceejus was probably been so hard on him because this same shit has been going down every since Ep1 leaked out, I’ve lost count of the number of webmasters and staff that have talked trash about their own community because of how vocal they were over that trainwreck.
Here’s to hoping Episode 2 isn’t more of the same and actually addresses the things that so many of us have been vocal about, maybe things can finally cool down.
I’m sure everyone here knows I’m all in favor of the sharp-tongued critics (being one myself), and it’s a shame that we get such a bad rap just for having high standards and still giving a shit about the series.
But if somebody wants to bitch back, who are we to harangue them for it? Especially if they’re willing to do so in a rational, well-presented manner? I get pissed off when people make broad generalizations about us, calling anyone with a negative opinion a whiney green-eyes-hating retrofag and the like… but that’s not really what LiQuidShade is doing here.
So he’s closing down his website because the community is annoying. Big whoop. I can’t really blame the guy. I have a hard enough time dealing with some of the stuff I see people posting about HERE.
LiQuidShade, I emphatically agree with everything you’ve stated.
“Wow, he’s going into the twenty-first century kicking and screaming, isn’t he?” – Hobbes
Sorry, but I had to say something. This guy’s aim to “go back to wide-eyed innocence” is unrealistic and unobtainable for reasons he’s already stated.
And also, negativity has always been more popular than positivity. The difference between then and now is that people have higher standards.
I have to sympathize with this guy; I certainly wouldn’t want to create a website only to go to the forums and find 90% of the users bitching and moaning. It’d get annoying really damned fast. Let the guy enjoy his games; there’s always other forums (moan).
I so agree with him.
Aw man. Zone 0 is a pretty awesome site, too!
ChaoticFox is doing such a fine job at defending classic Sonic in the face of the blatant agenda that Tristan has assumed for TSSZ that I don’t even have to post anything about this matter.
I feel the same way LiQuidShade…I’m about to just play the games and quit arguing and defending a franchise I ultimately have no control over…if its good, great!!! If it’s bad…oh well…I’ll sell it back
Aw! Zone 0 was so awesome! Well, I’ll need to save the pages or something for when Sonic 3 gets on the iPhone. *Wishful thinking*
And he has very legitimate reasons to quit. He has more important matters. Also, the fanbase is insane. Haha, I don’t even wanna call it a fanbase, I rarely see actual fans. Just utopian whiners. ChaoticFox, you’ve done well in your responses to these people.
Personally, I think this guy is too soft. “I genuinely feel things are moving on toward a better level of quality now in terms of the games themselves.” Of course things are going to a better quality … do you think this would’ve happened as quick if we DIDN’T yell at SEGA for publishing piss-poor Sonic games? As a fan since the start of the Hedgehog, I’m “negative” not because I’m a critic and that it’s somehow the “new postitive”, but because I CARE for the franchise, and I almost refuse to allow it to sink like the Titantic because carebears like this guy can’t give SEGA the smack in the face they deserve.
Sonic was a franchise that, when a game released, I knew I’d have fun playing it. The games, for me, were generally of great quality, and, as time went on, that stopped being the case. Sonic was up with Mario in terms of quality, and he should remain that way.
Also, if a developer, especially SEGA, ever make mistakes in their games, you, as a fan, need to tell them what that mistake was, and why, in your opinion, it was a mistake. This information is very valuable to developers, and helps (like in the case with Sonic 4) improve quality.
Being quiet and letting SEGA publish these mediocre games is not a very fan thing to do, IMO.
Awww, this sucks. I liked this guy too, but he has a very understandable reason.
Gotta go and dump Zone: 0 onto my PC (unless it’s already done by someone).
@Kits
They also have the internet and more and more ways to get their opinion across. I mentioned this in the article about “entitled gamers”. Fans weren’t ever REALLY united, they just had fewer places to gather to express their opinions. Back then, if you liked Sonic, then maybe your friends did too, and that was usually the extent of your involvement with the “community”.
As we got older, we got a more and more well-developed understanding of WHY we liked what we liked, so when Sega started moving away from what made its own series such a success, how could we not notice? If we were all fans of Blur Blur ice cream and they suddenly changed the formula and added chocolate chips, you can be damn well sure we’d notice!
Sure, maybe the new version had its merits… Hell, maybe you even liked the new flavor MORE. But it definitely wasn’t the same. You can’t expect a united fanbase when you have two distinctly different products under the same name. If there was ever any unity in this fanbase it was due to the fact that there was little to no difference between the classic games, in terms of style or quality.
Sonic has always had haters, even in the glory days. Remember the console wars? Many Mario fanboys hated Sonic on principle alone. Negativity isn’t the new positivity, negativity has just become more pronounced in a society that has allowed it to flourish… if you hated a Sonic game back in the day, you just didn’t play it, or you made fun of your friends. What other choices did you really have? Writing hate mail to Sonic-Grams?
Some folks are just hateful. I can understand wanting to get away from that. This post really has very little to do with Sonic or his games. This guy clearly just couldn’t stand all the hate. For that, my heart goes out to him.
@serpx
Make a list of all mediocre games they’re publishing and then say why you as a fan should say something about them, there’s a difference between constructive criticism and being a pain in the ass. If you were a fan you’d know that.
I’ve finished playing Vanquish yesterday and it’s a game published by SEGA and I can tell you it’s not mediocre.
@Everyone: Funnily enough some of the discussion going above is one reason why LiQuidShade has decided to leave. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however, there is such a thing as tact; or the way we say things.
ChaoticFox: I see what you mean.
Tristan: is what you’re doing up there some sort of satire?
Look, this whole “negativity is the new positivity” stuff is just BOGUS. How was the overall fan and critic reaction to Sonic Fan Remix? Now, I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t think that game is perfect, far from it, but the people behind it merit more praise than Sega for their efforts and they got the praise they deserved.
Now Sonic 2 HD. It looks freaking awesome. Why are FANS behind that? Couldn’t it have been Sega? Yes. Instead Sega chooses to give us lazy ass ports with blurred graphics. Hell, even their TRAILER is better than all Sonic 4 trailers together.
Sega’s getting owned by its fans left and right. It’s not a matter of opinion. It’s fact. Sonic 4 is different from what it was promised. Physics SUCK. Cel shaded graphics SUCK. Boss battle (except for the last one) do not bring enough new elements to the table to not SUCK. I can go on and on.
When Sega manages to get its shit straight, the fans will stop being so negative. But don’t go blaming the fans for being negative. Blame Sega for being a bunch of incompetent idiots led by the Moron King of them all, Iizukazilla.
This is like having a kid and then he goes riding a bicycle, falls and breaks his arm. He is there crying and at first you say “we gotta do something to fix that arm”. But you never actually manage to. So while the kid is STILL crying, now you’re like “shut up! Stop crying! Your arm is just DIFFERENT!”.
Yes it IS different, no shit. And he’ll keep crying. Dumbass.
So… everyone forgot about Sonic Colors already? What a shame…
Gotta post again because this is just so wrong.
Every SINGLE TIME a Sonic game is being teased to the community, every person in the fandom gets excited. No matter what side, newbies or oldbies, retrofags or furries, they all get excited. Do you really think I wasn’t insanely excited about Sonic 4? I checked Project Needlemouse’s hotsite EVERY DAY.
Every time a Sonic game is being developed we give Sega the benefit of the doubt. Really, the fans are only negative AFTER having their faces spat at. When Sega teases its fanbase beyond all decency, all I see is a bunch of fans praying “please don’t screw this up”.
The problem here is that Sega NEVER GETS IT RIGHT.
PERIOD.
@Komodin
I guess Sonic Colors is not even a part of the debate because people generally agree it’s a decent game. When people are throwing jabs at each other, it’s almost always talking about Sonic 4. Or some other projects that may fail as hard as Sonic 4′s Episode 1.
I laughed really hard at Iizukazilla XD
@Komodin
Andre’s right. Maybe the reason we see so much negativity is merely because it gives us something to discuss and analyze. When a game is good, you simply enjoy it… talking about how awesome it is doesn’t serve nearly as much of a purpose as trying to point out what mistakes could be corrected to better improve the series, and thus you don’t see it often.
Critiques require in-depth analysis and page-long bitch-fests… when a game is good, you don’t need to make a hugely passionate and detailed list on WHY (other than to use it as a standard for comparison). Negativity and harsh critiques are the refining pressures that turn coal into diamonds.
WELL DONE YOU COMPLETE ASSHOLES. ZONE 0 WAS A GODLY SITE, IT CONTAINED SO MUCH AWESOMENESS – AND YOU’VE DESTROYED IT. GREEN EYE HATERS?
(EDIT – Inflammatory -T)
I LOVE THE SONIC FRANCHISE, BUT I AM STARTING TO DISLIKE THE RETARDED FANBASE. Seriously – green eyes? Imagine Sonic with BLACK EYES IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, on the new look Sonic. Exactly. Bitches. I love Sonic, but I hate the fanbase. And just when everything started to go in the right direction for Sonic… ridiculous. FREAKIN’ RIDICULOUS.
@Andre Sonic is turning around a bit, you have to admit. Sonic Colours was amazing.
@Tom
I don’t own a Wii, so I’m hoping it someday makes its way to the Xbox. But I accept in good faith that it was a good game, just like most people say it is.
The fanbase in general, though, isn’t discussing Sonic Colors. Where there’s merit, there’s no discussion. All this shitfest is regarding Sonic 4, obviously, because it was the game that would be “the direct sequel to the classic trilogy” and instead it felt like a shoryuken to the anus.
@Tom Cole
Why are you blaming the “COMPLETE ASSHOLES”? He’s leaving on his own accord. Sure he couldn’t stand a lot of complaining (pointless or not), but that is HIS decision alone(not to mention he has to manage his own personal life).
To be perfectly honest, screaming at the top of your lungs about how the “GREEN-EYE HATERS” are the sole reason of this incident and blaming them…makes you look just as pathetic as the people who do pointless bitching. And you don’t make yourself look any better by screaming names like “Bitches”.
No offense, just the truth.
(EDIT -T)
@Andre
I do hope Colours comes to an HD console, too. Glad you respect that
Sonic 4 wasn’t too bad to me, the physics I didnt mind – the annoying thing was that it was just a recycled version of Sonic 1/2, watered down a bit and put in HD. It was rehashmania.
lol, Krazee. It’s so ironic. It seems to me that this whole thing was caused by all the fanbase FIGHTING, and not necessarily just the fanbase BITCHING. It’s every bit as much the fault of the people raging at the critics as it is the actual critics.
@ChaoticFox: “It seems to me that this whole thing was caused by all the fanbase FIGHTING, and not necessarily just the fanbase BITCHING.”
This is pretty much my main problem with the fanbase; not the criticism, so much as all the civilwarring. It ‘d be quite childish to say that we should all hold hands and sing “Kumbaya” and all that jazz, but it wouldn’t hurt to say that we should simmer down a little and stop hating each other so much.
You know what I’m tired of? People who keep bringing up the negative fanbase issues. Its getting really old and it really doesnt need to be said once every 3 months. If anything it gives the writer permission to rant about sonic fans who rant… yup.
It’s too bad he stopped at Sonic & Knuckles, I still need me some Knuckles Chaotix maps.
Funny how this article starts off with the tired “bawww green eyes haters” when it’s obvious what design Zone 0 has a slant towards (Hint:Look at the site logo of Zone 0).
Still don’t get who sites mainly based around the old games have to throw fits that people shit on the newer games, they themselves made a site focused on the older games they know there is a divide they should accept it and move on.
Also they should stop saying “modern games” and just come out and say Sonic 4, a lot of these guys can’t seem to stand the utter disdain and contempt that was grown for the game called the official sequel to their all time favorite game Sonic 3&K. I was this way early last year until the leaks revealed how half-assed and lazy the game was, that said I refuse to write Sonic 4 off until I see what has and hasn’t changed in the next episode.
That’s a real shame. Zone: 0 seemed to be the most productive and active community Sonic sites along with Summer of Sonic and a few others. It’s a shame to see the creator succumb to the vocal majority that plague the Sonic community, but as it stands it’s a solid fact. I’d love suggesting more harsh moderators in his forums or to only email him with a resume of one’s writing abilities rather than opinionated fanboys with negative opinions against the blue blur.
Opinions are opinions and we need the negative to coincide with the positive just as much as dark needs light, but to take a hammer and exult frustrations on one of the most productive fans in the community is pretty sad.
That is why I enjoy TSSZNews- there may be regulars that frequent the site, but there aren’t any forums for peeved losers to flock to to lean on eachothers’ shoulders to share sob stories of the ‘sorry’ state Sonic’s in. I may not be a blasphemous fanboy, but when I go to a Sonic site, I don’t want to see, “sonic fails again,” on a FANSITE in the headlines, nor did I enjoy playing Unleashed. Sonic 4, Allstars, and Colors have been fun to play and the general gamer seems to reflect that opinion- so quit your whining, and start the celebratin’.
WELCOME TO THE INTERNET!
@IceHedge: Thank you for a little sanity.
@RaggtimeSonic: Wouldn’t bother me to give constructive critism on all of those games, and be a pain in the ass. Sometimes being a pain in the ass is necessary when a company doesn’t listen to your complaints (they’re doing better now). Also, I meant published Sonic games from SEGA, whom are made primarily from Dimps and Sonic Team.
What other developers do can vary in quality.
I don’t actually know any ‘bad’ fans, to tell the truth. All the negativity I’ve ever seen is people complaining about this legion of fans… yet where are they?
Maybe because I only ever frequent the SEGA blogs and TSSZ, and they all seem to have a charming and light-hearted atmosphere.
Well… mostly =) It’s probably just my naive side, I’m happy to enjoy Sonic games just because I love Sonic and the SonicVerse period. I find it hard to connect with people who can split that down the middle and say ‘I like this part of Sonic but not that one.’
to anyone who still thinks Sonic is going in the wrong direction, and is now “dead”, I’ve got 2 things to say.
1) you’re blind to say that colors wasn’t hugely successful
2) ITS A FUCKING GAME SERIES. GET OVER IT.
I mean, seriously, THAT’S the issue with the sonic fanbase, not the bitterness of people to each other, but the simple fact that they take EVERYTHING WAY too seriously. I know exactly where this guy is coming from, and im thinking of ignoring everything too. I mean, if you hate the game series, then hate it, but don’t shoot your mouth off and declare everyone not “true fans” and say that you’re the only “smart” sonic fan. I’ve said it before in a rant i’ve done. I hated transformers 2 (the game). Did i make video after video about how the original was vastly superior and they deviated away from the original game making it horrible? NO! Because at the end of the day, its a game. If you hate the Sonic game series so much, then get out, you’re not welcome here.
Ironically, Darkgomu, the only people I’ve EVER seen try to tell someone else they’re not a “true fan” are the people who get all uppity and feel the need to DEFEND the series from any form of criticism of complaints. The only people I see trying to shut others up or shove them out are the so-called “positive” people.
Let us bitch in peace. If you find it annoying, tough shit. Nobody forces you to read what we say. If you hate that we LOVE a game series enough to fight for ever higher standards of quality, then maybe you’re the one who needs to “get over it”
@darkgomugomu
What ChaoticFox said. The reason why you didn’t bitch about Transformers 2 was probably because you don’t give that much of a shit about the game anyway.
Just making this clear: we don’t hate the series. It’s actually the contrary, it’s because we love the series and know how much wasted potential it currently exhibits that we bitch about it.
You’re the one who’s saying it’s “just a game”. You’re welcome to say that, don’t get me wrong, that’s your opinion and I’m not gonna fight you. But that’s the thing, people like you are NOT pushing the quality of the series, if Sega wants the series to improve, it will do them no good to listen to people that, like you, say “meh, it’s ok”.
In the end of the day, the quality of the series as a whole will improve the more Sega listens to the fans who are vocal about the flaws in the series. That’s marketing 101. Specially now in the Internet Age, where it’s just so easy to listen to your customers.
Andre hit the nail right on the head.