Says Returning to 2D Sonic “Difficult From a Business Perspective”
A new, quick interview with Sonic Team head Takashi Iizuka published by Wired’s UK division alludes to a perhaps disturbing revelation: Without the boom of online distribution, there may not have been a revival of 2D Sonic.
“We have had the desire to create a new 2D Sonic game for quite a long time,” Iizuka claims in the article. “However, it was difficult from a business perspective, because we [had] many 3D Sonic games released. We were able to overcome this obstacle with the emergence of online distribution.”
Iizuka also feels the pain of many in the community who feel disenfranchised from the hedgehog they love, acknowledging the battery of poor scores many 3D Sonics of the mid to late 2000s endured.
“We are aware that there are titles that the audience and the development team were not satisfied with,” he explained. “I want to live up to…consumers’ expectations, by contributing more to Sega.”
Adding to that, Iizuka claims the expansion of Sonic characters was done “to create new gameplay and new product values,” in his words.
No clues were given as to what’s next from Iizuka or Sonic Team; the article is mostly insight on the emergence of Sonic 4 as a viable idea. But we normally don’t hear from Iizuka unless we’re close to something significant, and pieces are coming together indicating as much. Keep your eyes peeled, as we will be doing. Thanks to BlazerushDS for sending this in. If you have news to share, be sure to share it with us by clicking the Send News Tips link at the top of every page.
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not a viable idea from a business standpoint? What are you high? If that was the case then rereleasing Sonic 1 and 2 about 3 times for each console since the Sega Saturn might have stopped making them money about 7 years ago, but here we are with a PC collection on the way which bundles up Sega Genesis games previously released on Steam, some of which were released in Sonic Mega Collection Plus for the PC, which was also on the PS2 and Xbox, which was a port of Sonic Mega Collection for the Gamecube, many of those games which have also seen the light of day on the Xbox 360 and PS3 individually as well as in Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Coll…you get my point ENOUGH OF THE RERELEASES THANK YOU
What is the big deal about making both 2D and 3D games? It doesn’t have to be just one!
Here is how to do it Sega:
-Make the 2D games like the Genesis titles but ADVANCE on them (add more elements and level gimmicks)
-Make the 3D games as spacey as Sonic Adventure, but as large and as varied as Colours.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Komg Country Returns say hi Iizuka
It’s sad to think that (at least from Iizuka’s “business perspective”) 2D games aren’t considered viable as fully formed retail titles anymore, so they are reduced to nothing more than throwaway dlc.
It’s no wonder S4 lacked the love and polish it deserved. In Iizuka’s eyes, it was never MEANT to be significant or comparable to a “real” game like its modern 3D counterparts. It was never supposed to be any more than the dinky little half-assed romp that we got.
This makes it seem as though the choice for episodic digital distribution wasn’t about consumer convenience, but more along the lines of Iizuka believing that downloadable games aren’t to be taken seriously :/
Jesus people, he’s just taking about a game no need to type so much. “Okay class, take out your keyboards and type a 3 paragraph reaction essay about the article you’ve just read… and start!”.
This is Sega we’re talking about, remember that the Sega heads are famous for making critically bad decisions such as canning SoR 4 because “no one likes brawlers”.
Blind leading and not listening to the people with eyes unfortunately.
I believe, in the case of Sonic 4, it isn’t so much Iizuka as it is the demand of “the business”–those above him at Sega who come up with strategies like the digital initiative. I don’t think this situation is entirely of his doing.
-T
Fair enough, T, but it’s a shitty mentality regardless of who is to blame for it.
“Without the boom of online distribution, there may not have been a revival of 2D Sonic.”
What the fuck, really??? What revival was there? We’ve already had plenty of 2D Sonic titles, including the Advance and Rush Series.
Oh wait, they’re on portable platforms and not on consoles, therefore, they count towards absolutely nothing. Silly me
@ krazeeKidd102
Don’t worry! Sony will bring the console experience on the go with the NGP!!
By the way:
“I want to live up to…consumers’ expectations, by contributing more to Sega.”
Does anyone else find it funny he just paused before he said “consumers’ expectations”, as if he had to struggle to find the right words?
“I want to………..actually try to make good-quality games!!??? MY GOD!!!!”
krazee: That may be more a fault of the original author’s edit, removing needless words, than anything.
Usually I close that type of stuff in brackets. I didn’t this time.
-T
Good luck with that…
Well, this year is your chance buddy. Don’t eff it up.
I have to agree with Dr. Eggfang; New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Donkey Kong Country Returns are huge hits, and both are 2D side-scrollers. It may have to do with the fact they want to jump on the episodic bandawagon, but no one asked them to. I know that its supposedly so they could receive fan feedback, but really, if they know what we want, why do they keep asking?
@soraanimeforever: The reason they keep asking is apparently they’re not studying the games we REALLY like out of this franchise and refining them. HELL, who knows? We could probably not have been all too specific the first time around and now we have to pound into their heads harder.
Then again, people have gone on about these problems before Sonic 4, I’m sure. Sonic 4 just brought that aspect of the fanbase out more. How we will fight with them to study the original games and learn how they were and what made them great. I mean… It wasn’t hard for Capcom developers to study the original 6 Megaman titles on the NES in order to get a feel for them in Megaman 9. So why was it so hard for Dimps/Iizuka? Simple. Business. If someone in this fanbase will eat it, then why should they try to make a better product? This is why I push people to stand up, list their complaints and boycott the next title if there are no changes made. Because Sonic 4′s quality was unacceptable on all fronts.
By Greg:
“I mean… It wasn’t hard for Capcom developers to study the original 6 Megaman titles on the NES in order to get a feel for them in Megaman 9. So why was it so hard for Dimps/Iizuka? Simple. Business. If someone in this fanbase will eat it, then why should they try to make a better product? This is why I push people to stand up, list their complaints and boycott the next title if there are no changes made. Because Sonic 4′s quality was unacceptable on all fronts.”
Yes, and it’s so simple. But I’m kinda becoming hopeless, to be frank. Now that even Tristan is being passive-aggressive about the physics complaints, I don’t even feel like talking about it anymore.
If you wanna have your games shitty and if you like being lied to your face, if a bastardized version of the classics is enough for you, then by all means eat your heart out. I’ll just wait for Dragon Age 2 and hope they don’t screw THAT one up as well.
For a while at least, good luck ChaoticFox and Greg. You guys rock.
@Greg
It’s not just business, it’s pride. Iizuka legitimately believes that the physics are BETTER now (CEILING RUNNING!), that boost pads and scripted springs enhance the flow of gameplay, and that the homing attack is the greatest addition to the series since the power ring.
It makes me think of Vulpine, the way he always cries “it’s their series, and they can do what they want with it”. It’s almost as if they’re not making it for us anymore, and they’re just gonna keep doing whatever the hell THEY think is a good idea. The only people who REALLY care about living up to fan expectations are the marketing and community teams.
That Iizuka [> >]
The pic @ the top of the article is kinda cool:
Sonic believes in Izuka, that’s why he looks directly at him
“I want to live up to…consumers’ expectations”
By releasing games that feature hideous bastardizations of once-great characters, crappy controls that make a mockery of what the gameplay should actually be about, and stages that look like they were traced right off of old artwork?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHA
ha
ha.
…
*explodes into tears
This guy needs to take one fucking look at the “Hacking and Reverse Engineering” forum on Retro to see how many people crave that old stuff and all the creative yet loyal ideas forged into them. With a few bugfixes, the very-much incomplete current release of Megamix could be a retailable product.
@Greg the Cat
Why do people say so much effort was put into the making of Megaman 9 and 10? All it looks like they did was pretty much re-use the engine from the first few MM’s, slightly changed Robot Master powers made, some fancy lookin’ 8-bit sprites, palette swapped certain levels and called it a day. The game propably only took a few months to make, and almost all of that would be the sprite work and music. I may be wrong, but it doesn’t look like Capcom busted their butts making MM9 and 10. I think Sonic Team was rather brave making Sonic 4 from the ground up, and not taking Sonic 3′s engine and palette swaping the entire game like it SEEMS Capcom did(If I’m wrong and Capcom did the same as Sonic Team, just more… Sucessfully, then feel free to correct me).
And why do you guys hate Iizuka so much? He doesn’t seem like a bad guy, and he barely had a hand in the making of the Riders games, Sonic 06 and Sonic Unleashed. Not to mention that he helped with a couple Sonic games from way back when, designed levels for a few Sonic games that had pretty good level design, and also helped with some other SEGA games, like NiGHTS, that are praised quite a bit.
I dunno, maybe it’s just the fact that I pretty much like every Sonic game(besides 06, 3D Blast and the two Drift games, and even those I manage to squeeze a little fun out of) that I don’t get 99% of the complaints you Retro fans have.
Oh and I don’t hate Capcom or Megaman. Just the classic MM games aren’t my style.
Why do people say so much effort was put into the making of Megaman 9 and 10?
Brand new enemies and stages are a pretty good start. To that, add new music that is actually good and catchy and memorable.
It doesn’t just stop there though, it’s not just the “effort” that counts, it’s also the lack of stupid ideas. For example, Megaman doesn’t look butt-ugly, and undesirable gameplay elements, moves, and bad physic changes were not injected in the game.
The complete opposite of Sonic 4.
All it looks like they did was pretty much re-use the engine from the first few MM’s
The way a sequel should be made.
palette swapped certain levels and called it a day
Even if that were true, that would still be a better way to make stages that look new and fresh than what Sonic 4 did. Even IF it takes less effort.
I may be wrong, but it doesn’t look like Capcom busted their butts making MM9 and 10.
At least they busted their butts coming up with good ideas that don’t suck and ruin the game.
I think Sonic Team was rather brave making Sonic 4 from the ground up, and not taking Sonic 3′s engine and palette swaping the entire game like it SEEMS Capcom did
Right, instead they re-drew old stages in ugly plastic-looking HD, and didn’t even bother to change the color palette to make them feel new. More effort, yet less effective because of their clueless way to go about doing it.
And why do you guys hate Iizuka so much?
Because he has stupid ideas and doesn’t understand what Sonic games are about.
It seems that nowadays, Sega puts more effort into coming up with ideas to annoy fans instead of intelligently thinking about what made the classic games great. Then they troll us by acting like we’re never happy, even though all they did was give us an exceedingly bad ****-up of a game.
Are you ****ing me, the problem with this fanbase isn’t that they’re hard to please, it’s that they’ll accept any game no matter how ****ty it is.
@Monic: As I recall, the engine for MM9 was built from the ground up because they had lost the original source code. So they had their developers study and toy with the engine until it got to retro Mega Man perfection.
Look. The reason a game in a series is supposed to have the same engine is to use push the engine to the limit and improve upon the code by introducing new ideas and innovative game design. Sonic 4 worked completely against that by using a new inferior engine and not getting the point of why they would make a Sonic 4 for the fans. We wanted Sonic 4 to be like playing the Genesis for the first time playing Sonic 1. We wanted it to invoke those nice fuzzy feelings we had in 1991 when we saw the little blue rodent catapult off of ramps using momentum to pick up speed. We wanted that fresh, funky music, that distinct visual style, the playability, the unique bosses. We wanted a new game with new material that invoked the fuzzy memories of the 90s. The reason MM9 is so perfect is it manages to be something completely new in the retro style. It wasn’t a cheap cash in pretending to be a sequel to the retro series. It IS THE Mega Man 9.
“I don’t get 99% of the complaints you Retro fans have.”
Okay then. That explains it. If you’ll step back and take account of the music, the inconsistent and poor visual style, the poor controls and gameplay, the homing attack, the Cat Piano in the background, and the lack of truly new content, you can see easily why we’re upset. Mega Man 9 didn’t take us on a damn Scrapbook album adventure through familiar territory. It threw us into a new title. What’s even funnier is that Sega acts as if they need to remind us of the past titles when they release them in compilations EVERY FUCKING YEAR NOW.
Sonic 4: Episode 1 is a waste of space and time. I could be playing the infinitely superior titles it’s based off of and wait for new content and better programming. If it manages to fix the physics but retain everything else, I won’t buy it. They know we want the physics and programming to work. But that’s not the only thing wrong with the game. They could start with getting Jun off of the Cat Machete Thingamajigger and getting anyone else on the music. Spencer Nielson should be a candidate of whom to replace Senoue with.
But I’m rambling on. Hopefully you get the bigger picture. Old styled game with new content. But that doesn’t mean we need it to be 16 bit. 16 bit would be pretty badass though.
They don’t have to do 2d…. Just make another SA or SA2 styled game, those are the fan favorites.
Ha-ha! Iizuka sure like joking! We had a PLENTY of 2D titles.
Sonic advance
Sonic advance 2
Sonic advance 3
Sonic rush
Sonic rush adventure
Sonic colors
WHAT was so hard in releasing another new game [Sonic 4]?
How the hell are people getting bold text?
@TWX
And while I agree that Sonic 4 had a bad soundtrack compared to other Sonic titles, especially Colors, it still has it’s few good tracks. SHZ act 3, LLZ Act 1, and MGZ Act 1 just to name a few. Anyways, thats another complaint I don’t get. Sonic’s modern look isn’t as bad as people say. All they did was stretch his body a little and slapped some green onto his eyes.
And about the moves, the homing attack isn’t bad really, maybe they could have left uncurling out but who the heck his going to honestly sit there and bounce on 7 enemies for about 15 seconds when they could just homing attack them all and be done with it 10 seconds sooner? The air dash is a useful move as well.
And what’s with the hate for the graphics, man? They aren’t bad and if you’re honestly telling me that MM1-10 ALL look better than Sonic 4, I might need an hour or two to laugh. Not trying to be rude, but how do 8-bit sprites compare to Sonic 4′s… Anything graphical? Just look at one of the water falls, or the effects on Super Sonic, or the models. Maybe it’s just me not understanding a lot of peoples complaints again. It’s like saying Donkey Kong Country 1 looks better than DKCR. DKCR does have Plastic Fur DK though…
About Iizuka, what idea’s of his are stupid? Sure, the game could have been better but look at the crap SEGA and Sonic Team had to deal with. Not only did they get an ENTIRE GAME LEAKED, they also got betrayed and the whole “SAWNEEK IN A KAR” fiasco. Looking at the stuff that happened last year it’d be a given that they would start losing a little patience, not to mention that everyone seems to have forgotten about how awesome Sonic Colors is and the complaining about S4E1 for years on end seems to have started again, and it seems to be about really dumb stuff(SAWNIK FWHORE IZ TAB A TO WEN GAYUM FU REELZ BROZ).
Also, Greg, I know how games and their sequels work. I make my own. It’s just that most sequels significantly change something. I don’t really see much change in MM9 and 10 and I’ve seen both from top to bottom. Also, the homing attack isn’t bad Megamix uses the same thing. Sonic Team has clearly stated multiple times that Episode 1 was the nostalgia episode, more new stuff will be in Episode 2. Though I don’t get why people hate the themes they used, nearly every Sonic game uses these themes at some point in the game anyways.
Blegh, long post is long, I know. Hope I didn’t come off as rude any where in this post.
@Monic
Regarding the music: the primary problem with most of it was the shitty low quality instrumentation. With a little extra flair and better use of different synth pads, the soundtrack could have been a LOT better. What we got just ends up feeling lazy and half-assed, even if some of it has catchy basic melodies.
The homing attack IS an unnecessary abomination. The air dash thing is fun for the first little while, until you realize that you’re doing it for literally 90% of the game. There are videos now that show people completing stages by using nothing but the jump button. “Hold right to win” just took on a whole new meaning :/
It removes practically ANY challenge that any badnik could have ever added to the game, makes easy boss fights even EASIER, and worst of all: gave the level designers an excuse to pretend that SPIKELESS Bubble chains were a “cool” shortcut. You’re right, having to bounce of that many enemies would be tedious… but without the homing attack, those bubble chains wouldn’t even BE there, and maybe we’d see some actually creative and tricky platforming and level design. As it stands now, all the homing attack and air dash do (besides making the game a button spamming snooze-fest) is hide the fact that your spin dash is absolutely worthless. These days it seriously feels like they’re trying to pretend Sonic never had that ability.
The complaints about the graphics make sense. Sure, you have some neat water effects, but so what? The level artwork itself (besides being recycled and generic) lacks in the visual flair and wonder that a lot of the original zones had. It feels empty and soulless, like it was cobbled together from generic tilesets, rather than lovingly crafted by a pixel artist.
You can’t compare 8 bit to 16 bit, and so on, but you can tell when a 16 bit artist really tried to make the most out of his limited resources and when a 3D artist just lazily threw in some pointless rocks in the background because he didn’t give a shit. It’s not all bad, mind you, it’s just disappointing. Not to mention that the OMG LOOK HOW HD IT IS graphics are probably entirely responsible for the use of a broken shitty physics engine in the first place. If they HAD done a 16-bit game (something I think almost no one would have complained about), it would have been effortless for them to re-use an old, working, beloved gameplay engine… an engine that was THE PRIMARY REASON EVERYBODY WANTED SONIC 4 IN THE FIRST PLACE.
We don’t hate them for re-using the themes…. we hate them for actually thinking that we needed a refresher course on Sonic games while simultaneously offering us an experience that was NOTHING like the games it was LITERALLY copy/pasting. We get there should be a casino level, an ice level, a green hill level… but does it really have to be IDENTICAL looking? I mean, at least switch the color palettes or something, Jesus! Casino Street suffers the worst, being a pinball level without pinball physics. We were given empty uninspired shells of our previous favorites as if to RUB IN OUR FACES that these new zones aren’t nearly as good and don’t play nearly as well.
Maybe they’ll fix the physics in Ep2. Maybe they’ll stop playing the rehash game and give us something interesting and fresh. Maybe they’ll let those dying cats die and give us a real soundtrack… but something tells me that’s too much to ask. The homing attack will probably still be the bane of proper level design, and those pinball physics we’re hoping for might make it too difficult for all that ceiling running Iizuka is so fond of.
As for MegaMan… you have to realize that MM1-6 didn’t significantly change anything between sequels either. A new ability here and there for a couple of them, but they stuck REALLY close to their original formula the whole way through, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t fuck with it for 9 and 10. They were trying to make a RETRO game in modern times… innovation wasn’t really required. People weren’t ASKING for something new and game-changing… they just wanted the good ol’ old-school feeling of the originals – something they were given, exactly as ordered.
I don’t even care for classic NES Mega Man. Those games are too hard for me. But I respect Capcom’s process in creating that game. MM9 and 10 were EXACTLY as Mega Man fans “truly imagined it”. Sonic 4 is more “as Iizuka truly imagined it, take it or leave it – we don’t really care, this will still make us money”
I feel bad that Iizuka has to put up with all this pressure. It’s surprising that he did,kt leave to start up his own company/work for a highly acclaimed company like the other previous greats of Sonic Team.
And about the moves, the homing attack isn’t bad really,
Yes, it’s really bad.
It’s not just that it aims for you and takes away the pleasure of aiming your attack yourself.
It’s also that when you perform it, Sonic attacks at a set speed, meaning that from the moment you do it, any of the previous momentum you had doesn’t matter anymore, since the attack always gets performed at the same speed and in a set direction. It interrupts the flow of movement, so to speak.
It doesn’t stop there though. After attacking, in the Genesis games, the speed at which you bounce and fly off after attacking directly depends on the angle and the strength from which you came, like a superball.
With the homing attack, you lose the “strength” factor since it’s always at the same strength. You know when people complain that Sonic games are too “automated”? This is just one of the aspects that contribute to that.
The Genesis games were about flow and the inter-connectedness of movement. This is why the homing attack is bad, because it works directly against an essential core aspect of the Sonic series. Don’t believe the idiots who think we just hate it “because it’s new”, they’re being morons and are missing the point as usual.
Another flaw is that you can abuse the Air Dash to gain free speed automatically without sacrificing anything. While running, just jump and double tap, and voila. The genius of the Spin Dash was that it didn’t give you too much; and that to use it you had to stop and sacrifice all your speed just for that short burst. Now, you don’t anymore. (note that the SA1 spin dash was terrible because you can just spam the X button to do it infinitely while running).
if you’re honestly telling me that MM1-10 ALL look better than Sonic 4, I might need an hour or two to laugh
Then you must be one of those morons who randomly laugh when stuff isn’t funny, because it’s true.
The issue here isn’t “graphics”, which doesn’t mean much on its own, it’s about the entire visual style of the game including the art style. The NES art style was a choice and was picked for a reason.
Nes graphics ARE beautiful. Limiting yourself to a few squares of colors, and being able to accurately and stylishly represent something concrete within those limitations, is a sign of tremendous creative intelligence. It’s hard. Harder than making a usual drawing.
No, really. Talented artists can draw pretty much anything they want, as detailed as they want, if they’ve got a decent size to work with. But with NES style sprites, you’ve got to actually THINK a lot more than that, because every single pixel counts. According to most people, I can draw pretty well. But designing a good looking low-res sprite (from scratch, not a recolor) is not something I can do very well. The same goes for in-game environments.
More modern 2D, such as Muramasa, are a different matter. Such games are beautiful as well, of course, but I would maintain that Megaman 9/10 are just as beautiful, in a different way, and just as worthy of being called “art”.
I always have a good laugh at idiots who complain because “it’s pixelated!!1!” NO ****, and that looks nice, too, so stop complaining and start appreciating.
Sonic 4, on the other hand? Yeah, it’s fancy, it’s in HD, it’s detailed… but that won’t help if it’s badly drawn. Stuff like the character design and the plastic grass look really cheap. And yeah. Some backgrounds look really good… Too bad they wouldve been more appropriate for a Sonic 1-2 remake than for Sonic 4.
@ChaoticFox and TWX
Retro fan complaints continue to not make any sense to me. Anyways, TWX, I know full well how the Homing Attack works. But I still don’t think it’s bad. It gets the job done faster than jumping on enemies. I don’t see whats so awesome about jumping on enemies, unless you’re trying to bounce really high but other than that I don’t see the point. Also TWX, I have played nearly every Sonic game ever created, so I know the mechanics. Not trying to be rude, but you seem to act like I have no knowledge what-so-ever about Sonic games.
About the air-dash, unless you’re speed running you’re not doing it for 90% of the game. I barely used it in my first run-through of the game, and when I’m playing it to just play it I still use it sparingly. Maybe that’s just my style of play. And also, I’m sure you could be a few levels of Sonic 2 and/or 3 by just spin dashing. Every Sonic game has it’s amount of automation.
And about the visual style… well, you know the drill.
@TWX
No need for insults, dude. It just seems kind of hilarious to say that an 8-bit game looks better than an HD one. It’s like saying the first half of the first season of sponge bob look better than the current seasons episodes(inb4 they do). I admit that MM1-10 are beautiful in their own way and for their time period. Well, except MM9 and 10.
I actually have to say, in terms of the homing attack, Monic, the reason it was so unnecessary is because it was meant for a 3-D plane, and was really an excuse for Sonic Team to not give us more precise jumping mechanics. In a 2-D game, there is absolutely no need for it, UNLESS Sonic Team needed to, again, cover the fact that the game has imprecise jumping mechanics, which Sonic 4 does. And the way the homing attack stops your momentum is fine in the 3-D titles, to be honest, but for this game, is just compltely stops you in your tracks, and sometimes you can fuck up reaching intended shortcuts on that alone. Also, as ChaoticFox mentioned, its really an excuse to have to lazy level design.
What SEGAMew said.
Hope this is a good year for Sonic!
Iizuka, listen to this, please. Personally, I’m a HUGE 3D Sonic fan. I love Sonic The Hedgehog. My first game was Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, the best game ever. And let me tell you something… No 2D Sonic game could EVER top that. SA2 is WAAAAAY better than Sonic 1 – 4. A 3D Sonic game is the best in the series, not a 2D one.
Which brings me to another thing. Sega, the 3D and 2D engine worked great in Unleashed, but not with Colors. There was WAY too much 2D.
You guys pleased the fans that grew up with 2D old school Sonic with Sonic 4, so what happened to the Adventure fans? When could we finally get, the solid 3D, multiple story, NEW cool sounding music, fantastic story mode game, Sonic Adventure 3…
I don’t get when people say stuff like “Sonic 06 SUCKED!” Or “We want 2D back!”, because personally speaking, I LOVED SONIC 06. It’s a great game, just needed to fix the wall glitch with Knuckles and Rouge.
All in all, I need you to hear this, no matter how many complaints you may get on a Sonic game, you will always live up to my expectations, a true Sonic fan.
I personally appreciate both classic Sonic AND modern Sonic. It’s better to treat both as equal rather then hating the other or liking the other better. You may not have to like both, but you will at least have to respect them, since Sonic is not your creation, nor is it mine (We’re fans and nothing more then that). While it’s nice to live up to consumer’s expectations, I cannot stand the whiners and their complaints as they want the Sonic series to be what it will never be (i.e. SEGA getting ideas straight from terrible fanfics, the SatAM VAs reprising their roles in the games, certain couples such as Tails/Cream becoming canon, and other garbage that I would not want to happen). I know that not all Sonic games are top class, but that does not mean you get to hate the series just because some games don’t do well as others in sales and reviews. A Sonic game will always be a Sonic game, whether you like it or not.
I may be sorry, but I find nostalgic whiners annoying for some reason. The Sonic fandom has become a warzone and I wish everyone would get along for a change. Geez.
All this whining, cussing, bullying and useless nonsense is why I don’t post here as often as I used to.
@ChaoticFox
Funny how you mentioned my name before I even posted here. Don’t stereotype me as one of the bad Sonic fans just because you disagree with me. I’m one of the good fans who is trying to help the franchise, and you probably did not know that. Honestly, if you can’t respect opinions of me or anyone else here, then don’t reply.
@Sonic52789
That is what I am talking about. The recent games (especially Sonic 2006) have gotten far too much hate, and I wish people would see more of the Sonic franchise rather then just staying in their old nostalgic feeling for the rest of their lives. Although my first Sonic game was Sonic the Hedgehog 1 for the Genesis back in 1991, that didn’t stop me from wanting to play future games in the series through the years.
Vulpine, I didn’t stereotype you at all. I pretty much quoted you verbatim, and technically (albeit begrudgingly) I was talking about the way Sega seems to support your position. Do you even READ what people say, or do you just look for your name and jump to conclusions?
@ChaoticFox
Uh, I do read what others say on this website before I post anything, mind you. You just don’t understand that.
@Monic
If all you care about is the fastest way to destroy enemies with no actual challenge, why the hell even include enemies in the first place? Or platforming, for that matter? Those pesky jumps make the levels take so much longer to complete than they would if you just had a straight line to run across, amirite?
Do you even enjoy playing games, or are you content to just watch them play themselves while you monotonously press the same button for a couple of hours? If LITERALLY nothing else, the homing attack pretty much makes 99% of all enemies and bosses require NO player skill, to the point where their inclusion in the game is completely and utterly pointless. No wonder Sonic 4 had to rely on so many bottomless pit traps to kill the player! The only enemy that could EVER possibly hurt you is the final boss!
Lastly, let me just say that these aren’t just “retro fan” complaints. They are complaints from people who enjoy ALL video games enough to analyze them their design more seriously than your average casual gamers. It’s what we like, what we enjoy. It’s like nerd wine-tasting. ]
It’s not because the homing attack is NEW that we hate it, and it makes anyone who says so look absolutely bat-shit stupid when they try to imply that that’s the case. We’ve given you more than enough valid, fully supported reasons why we believe the homing attack detracts from the overall gameplay experience. You are more than welcome to disagree. But to act like you still don’t understand us just makes you look stupid.
Then again, so do your comments regarding art, so w/e.
I have an idea of how the homing attack could work in Sonic 4. Just make each episode an Easy Mode and a Normal Mode (both with proper oldschool physics).
Easy mode will have less enemies and spikes. Pressing the jump button twice will let Sonic do the Homing attack. There will be homing chains in stages that will lead to hidden areas/shortcuts.
Normal Mode will have a sufficient amount of enemies, spikes, and actual challenges other than bottomless pits. Pressing the jump button twice will let Sonic do the Instashield. That’s it. The homing attack chains are gone, but you can reach the hidden areas/shortcuts by using Tails to fly up there (assuming he’s playable in the episode).
DONE
Before I say this I’d just like to say that I’m definitely NOT apologizing for Iizuka, Sega or Sonic 4. That said, why don’t you just not use the Homing Attack? I agree that there should be no section that REQUIRES HA , but to say it’s an gamebreaking new feature is just not true (barring the fore mentioned fixed speed and bouncing angle, which I do wish would be fixed).
@Skai
I know what you’re saying. But it just goes back to the inclusion of the homing attack AFFECTING everything else. Sure, you don’t have to use it, but with the broken physics, gimped spin-dash, and certain elements of the level design, you’re kind of forced to deal with the repercussions of its existence.
If they were to have designed the game without the attack in mind, and then added it in AFTER the fact, it wouldn’t really be a problem. But when your normal acceleration and abilities are barely functional at best, and portions of the level design require its use, it becomes much harder to ignore.
That said, why don’t you just not use the Homing Attack?
Because even though it’s a shallow move that takes a lot of depth away from the gameplay, it’s also a very convenient move, and it makes things a lot easier.
For that reason, to not use it would require one to discipline oneself not to tap the button again.
And that’s not fun. To be fighting against my instincts just because the developpers had a stupid idea? When that happens, you criticize it, you don’t try to excuse it with lame-ass excuses.
And that’s all “you don’t have to use it” really is. A terrible excuse for a pathetic argument., only used by people who don’t have a clue what Sonic games should really be about.
Oh, and there’s also that terrible crosshair that constantly screams “PRESS A! USE HOMING ATTACK! JUST DO IT!”
I personally appreciate both classic Sonic AND modern Sonic. It’s better to treat both as equal rather then hating the other or liking the other better.
I personally appreciate ice cream AND poop. It’s better to teat both as equal rather then hating the other or liking the other better. You may not have to like both, but you will at least have to respect them, since ice cream and poop are not your creations, nor are they mine.
@TruthWarriorX
Don’t ever make fun of me again.
Only if you don’t ever write anything stupid again.
@Sonic52789
Vulpine, stop it. That’s not being a “true” Sonic fan. It’s just being a clueless Sonic fanboy.
@TruthWarriorX
I’m not stupid, and I did not write anything stupid. How dare you say things like that. I know what is right and what isn’t, and I’m entitled to my opinions just like everyone else. Don’t reply to me if you’re going to be mean.