Still, the Modern v. Classic Debate Continues
Talk has been loud about returning Sonic to his roots for years. Still, like it or not, there remains a healthy delegation of Sonic fans who prefer green eyes, pure speed, and tons of side characters over simple platforming.
With that in mind, we decided to ask in our latest @Issue poll whether, given the news of Sonic Generations, the return of classic Sonic, and a focus only toward Sonic gameplay, you felt Sega was turning a corner and beginning to neglect modern fans who are used to options and variety. Out of 900 votes, 80 percent voted no. Just 20 percent voted yes.
So, the nays have it, and a new poll is available for you to vote on. You can discuss the results of this poll below. And for the record, the poll that preceded this one was scrapped due to it closing early in error.
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Cancel Sonic 4 or remake it with the classic Sonic engine used in Generations.
If anyone thinks that Modern Sonic is neglected in a game based on the best of both of them collaborating, they’re not thinking straight. At the same time I’ve heard some people say it looked like they were trying to make Modern Sonic look cooler than Classic Sonic. Sad thing is, if you really think that, then it’s likely you subconciously think Modern Sonic IS cooler than Classic Sonic and hate to admit it. Why? Because if they’re bringing out the best of both, how can Modern Sonic look cooler unless you feel Classic Sonic isn’t cool enough in comparison despite being at his coolest?
Modern Fan: I wanna run run run SPEEEEED! Holding forward the whole time is exciting!
Classic Fan: No! Jumping on top of boxes is exciting! And I get a thrill out of facing right and suddenly TURNING LEFT! It’s just so amazing! No comparison!
Modern Fan: We have characters with powers and cliches! Everyone loves that! Like Silver and Shadow!
Classic Fan: Naaah, I think forgotten pointless characters is where it’s at! Recolors like Mighty and Ray need to come back! They both had the same exact gameplay as Sonic and no significant role or background of their own, but were undoubtfully the BEST characters added to the franchise!
Neautral Fan: I like Sonic. The franchise seems interesting. =)
Modern and Classic Fans: Pfft. What a moron. Sonic sucks.
Neautral Fan: o.O???
lol
“Talk has been loud about returning Sonic to his roots for years. Still, like it or not, there remains a healthy delegation of Sonic fans who prefer green eyes, pure speed, and tons of side characters over simple platforming.”
You sure about that? Last year’s Modern Sonic game Colors had a huge focus on platforming over pure speed and had 6 characters and only one playble (No I’m not counting the farmed out DS game).
Regarding the current poll:Survival of the fittest and 4 looks like some sick old gazelle at this point.
If the rest of Sonic 4 is cancelled because of Generations, then that would not be fair on those who actually enjoyed the game, i.e nearly everyone other than Retro and Stadium. Plus, it’ll be a bloody stupid decision on SEGA’s part, marketing-wise.
Modern Sonic has been around longer than Classic Sonic, I think there’s no way that anyone is neglected of that.
The funny thing is, this poll would have probably had opposite results if only “modern/adventure” Sonic fans had voted.
But the same could be said for the great majority of polls made here, so that’s not really big news.
I think that Sega neglecting modern fans, better to say adventure fans. Because 3D Sonic was very good not only in gameplay, but in storyline too. I very enjoyed SA1-2 storylines, it was very interesting to close know Sonic’s world, the character of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Eggman, Amy, Rouge. I was very glad to know Eggman in SA2 like a man which has serious feelings, not stupid clown like he was in Sonic Unleashed and Colors. I really want Sega to develop temper of well-known characters instead of introducing new on one game. I don’t know what storyline will be in Generations but I don’t have good feelings about that. It may create a bunch of new contradictions with this try to satisfy all.
Please, don’t think that I love Sonic only for storyline. I really enjoyed Color’s gameplay and I love classic too. But for 3D Sonic gameplay not enough. I don’t feel in this game that I felt in others. All worth in Color’s (Wii version) plot is only some smart phrases and beauty final cutscene. And don’t tell me that S2006 shown that serious storyline – bad idea. You know that this game was bad because it was incompleted, and this may happened with every game. No matter serious it or not if it is not completed it will be bad.
DANGITT!!!! I accidently pressed “yes” on that poll!!!!
Why couldnt I change my answer!?
@FoxBoy: Bloody genious. Finally a non-biased Sonic fan.
With Foxboy I do agree. I mean no offense meant to anyone who does, but how could anyone see modern sonic as being neglected? If you’re looking at it strictly character wise, he’s been in every single game for 12 years, even sonic 4. SONIC 4–if that doesn’t speak un-neglection, than nothing does.
Now if you look at it gameplay wise, than I still do not believe you can say he’s neglected. Yes, Sega as of late has been all about returning sonic to his roots. But let me ask: what is modern sonic’s gameplay? Going forward as fast as you can? That’s only been recently, starting with Unleashed. What about the Adventure style of gameplay? Sonic Heroes? Sonic and the Secret Rings? See, I don’t think you CAN look at the argument from a gameplay perspective, because modern sonic has never had a set style of gameplay–it’s always changing. What some may consider signs of “neglect” is just Sega doing what they have been for the past decade–changing things up.
And as far as Sega wanting to get back to his roots, that’s what they said about Unleashed, and that game is how many people now define “modern sonic”. Besides, Sega wouldn’t have need to go back to any roots if all their different attempts at modern gameplay were highly appraised and well received, such as Unleashed’s daytime stages. They stuck around for colors, but only in spirit (Though to be fair, the Adventure’s were well received, but this is Sega we’re talking about). And personally, I’ve enjoyed most of the “modern” games, though I believed they could’ve been better. You have sonic 4, which again, used modern sonic, and as far as gameplay, it’s very arguable how much it actually replicates classic sonic gameplay–and one downloadable game isn’t neglect, now is it?
Therefore, if you can’t base it off of gameplay, and looking at it character wise doesn’t hold any water, then you have to conclude that modern sonic is not, in the least, neglected. I read some comments that mentioned Adventure, but that’s not modern sonic in general, that’s solely the Adventure series. And of course, there are always speculations and rumors about where Sega is heading with sonic–however, none of these are facts, so you can’t base an argument off of those; you have to go by what we know.
Green Eyes…Black Eyes lol what does it matter lol… But I will say modern sonic looks more oh I dunno more…uhum life like…argh…teenageish LMAO.
Some think they’re catering to Classic fans in this game too. In a game that has Classic and Modern Sonic, yep. Silly huh? lol
I consider there 2 be 3 eras of Sonic. Retro, Adventure and NextGen, or as Generations calls it “Classic, Dreamcast and Modern”. lol
But also, I read in one of these articles, can’t find it, that Modern Sonic fans were used to option and more characters?
Modern Sonic:
-Sonic and the Secret Rings (only play Sonic)
-Sonic Unleashed (only play Sonic)
-Sonic and the Black Knight (only play as Sonic)
-Sonic Colors (only play as Sonic)
Classic Sonic:
Sonic 2 (play as Sonic, Tails or both)
Sonic 3 (play as Sonic, Tails or both)
Sonic & Knuckles (play as Sonic or Knuckles)
Knuckles in Sonic 2 (play as Knuckles instead of Sonic and/or Tails)
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (play as Sonic, Tails, Sonic and Tails or Knuckles, get Super AND Hyper Sonic and Knuckles.)
Adventure Sonic:
-Sonic Adventure (play as Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Big, Gamma)
-Sonic Adventure DX (play as Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Big, Gamma, Metal Sonic)
-Sonic Adventure 2 (play as Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Rouge and Eggman)
-Sonic Adventure 2 Battle (play as Sonic, Amy, Tails, Chao, Knuckles, Tikal, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Rouge, Chaos, Eggman, Dark Chao and EggRobo)
Just saying. :O
Modern Sonic isn´t going to be neglected. Maybe there´s going to be some Classic Sonic games, but I don´t think Sega will just forget Modern Sonic. He can be transformed though.
I don´t think Sonic 4 Episode 2 should be cancelled. Just fix the problems in Episode 1 and call it a day.
ilcane, that is one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read. Of course the results would be different if you made the poll exclusive to only one section of the fanbase. It practically completely defeats the purpose of polling if you’re going to use such a narrow-minded scope.
“Do you like Sonic, yes or no? Sonic fans only please”
Fucking derp.
Also, Foxboy, get your facts straight. Black Knight has multiple playable characters. You also seem to be forgetting everyone’s favorite abomination: 2K6.
The idea that “Modern Sonic” is being neglected is completely absurd, especially considering many of the facts that Goodman so kindly pointed out. The only ones being “neglected” recently are Sonic’s friends, and only TWO of them don’t deserve it… then again, if they even CONSIDER putting Tails in a robot again, then I’d say good riddance to him forever…
I’m surprised that people debate between Sonic’s eyes. I mean look at Tails, Knuckles, and Amy! Tails has blue eyes, Knuckles has purple eyes and Amy also has green eyes and no one is debating on them! Give Sonic a break! Sonic is Sonic and will always BE Sonic. I personally like both Sonic’s, I think the green eyes gives him more of that attitude look.
@ChaoticFox
How is THAT the dumbest thing you’ve ever read? You act like you’ve never heard of George Bush Jr, or Mariotehplumber. Yeesh. lol
And narrow-minded? It’s narrow-minded to ask Modern Sonic fans only if Modern Sonic is neglected? I mean, they’re the FANS of Modern Sonic, they would know better than people who don’t like or care about it. xD Based on that logic, it’s narrow-minded to only ask Sonic fans. Let’s go as Oprah if she thinks Modern Sonic is being neglected in this game! Don’t forget Tony Jaa and Jennifer Lopez! Let’s ask Osama Bin Laden’s surviving henchmen what THEY think. The more the better. lol Nah I’m just messin with you.
But your example is different from this situation. You basically said “Are you a Sonic fan, yes or no? Sonic fans only please.” If it were a reflection of this situation it’d be “As a Sonic fan, do you think they are neglecting him, yes or no?” because if you asked a non-Sonic fan they’d be like “I wouldn’t know. I’m not a Sonic fan.” xD
And what do you mean “get your facts straight”? You only play as Sonic in the main story. You unlock the others as extras. I didn’t FORGET Sonic 06, I was listing the games where it was only Sonic playable, not all Modern Sonic games in general. Based on your point of view, you forgot Secret Rings. I listed the ones I did not including t hings that had to be unlocked. Probably should’ve left out EggRobo and for DX Metal Sonic but no one’s perfect.
I also accidentally mispelled “neutral” in my first comment. I hope I don’t get the death sentence. XD lol jk
come on man, lighten up. There’s no need for this “you’re a moron” attitude in our discussions. It’s a game. =P
@Foxboy
I said dumbest comment, not dumbest thing. I also said “one of the”, implying that it was not the supreme grand daddy of dumb comments, but merely that it was up there.
Also, for a guy trying to ask me to lighten up, you could probably use chill pill yourself
I wasn’t even attacking you in the first place, so I don’t know what’s got your panties in a wad. I’ve no quarrel with you.
I just think it’s pretty dumb to focus a poll like this toward a subsection of a community that is so irrationally opinionated to begin with. Of course a significant portion of modern fans would say he’s been neglected, because that’s how this fanbase typically IS. Unless EVERY game is specifically catered to their fanfiction-inspired wet dreams, it’s either not good or it’s not enough. The fact that Sonic 4 was a 2D platformer is an insult to certain modern fans, because they are just that ridiculous.
When seeking the opinion of the community as a whole, it’s perfectly fair and sensible to allow the opinions of ALL fans to be heard, not just a minority faction. The point of the poll is to determine the community’s overall feeling on the subject, not to ask a smaller group of people if their hyperspecific desires are being adequately sated.
As for your list, I’m not saying it had to be 100% comprehensive, but to isolate modern sonic games as “Sonic only” when at least two of them aren’t that way (main story or not), just seems like you’re skewing your results to favor your position, rather than basing said position on accurate information. As for Secret Rings, I returned that game before I even finished the tutorial level because it was that unpleasant… so my knowledge on the subject is admittedly limited. I wasn’t trying to attack or one-up you, I just figured it was worthy of mention.
But hey man, it IS just entertainment. And if you’ll notice, I’m not really getting particularly up in arms about anything relating to the games. I went off about a comment regarding the functions of a poll, not the actual results
@ChaoticFox
Word games is all that is. And being one of the dumbest still means it’s in that category, unless you’re just referring to all dumb things in general. xD
Why do I need to take a chill pill? For being the one to ask you to calm down? It’s not the first time I’ve been in a similar situation where someone does something but if I mention it they claim I’m the one who did it more when I didn’t do anything. xD You called someone’s comment dumb and said “Get your facts straight”. It’s a more than a bit insulting. :/
I have no idea what you were talking about around the “wet-dreams” thing. You completely lost me. xD
When you’re looking for the opinions of the fanbase as a whole, yes. But that’s the point. They shouldn’t be looking for the opinions of the entire fanbase in regards to a subject that only applies to modern fans. How can a fan who is not interested in Modern Sonic determine of Modern Sonic is neglected or not when either way they’re not interested in it? That would give more votes to say it is neglected cuz he isn’t like Modern Sonic, and then appears as the results saying a bigger chunck actually believe this. It’s inaccurate. That’s like including the opinions of Sonic haters on whether or not SEGA neglects Sonic. Do we really think they’re gonna say no? lol
I wasn’t saying Modern Sonic games were only Sonic, I was just listing that there were a lot of solo-Sonic Modern games and a lot of Sonic-and-friends classic and Adventure games in existence. (The point was that the statement that classic Sonic was mostly solo and modern Sonic mostly included other characters being available is untrue is all.)
Yeah you’re response sounds much friendlier now. Thank you. XD
Sooo will we get an article about the next poll in the near future as well?
@ FoxBoy: You forgot Sonic CD….
@Knuckles Chaotix
No, I di… *sigh* Why do I even try? x_X lol
@Foxboy
It’s actually quite the opposite of a word game. I chose those specific words for a reason, and I would hope that people would read them as intended, and not blow them out of proportion.
As for the poll thing again: I think it’s a question that SHOULD be directed at the entire fanbase, because pleasing the majority should be prime priority, rather than trying to micro-cater to every single minority faction of an already fragmented community.
If the majority of Sonic fans are happy with the way things are, there’s no reason to change or place more focus and emphasis on “modern Sonic”. The minority faction will just have to suck it up and deal, if it really bothers them that much.
I get your point about the whole classic/adventure thing. Like I said, I really just threw that “facts straight thing” just because it seemed worth noting. I wasn’t trying to be hostile.
And yes, we’ll get another article on the results of the current poll once it concludes around the end of the month or so. This is a pretty regular thing around here.
cant everyone just shut up and play the games?
Modern Sonic looks cooler then Classic Sonic.
Classic Sonic is fat.
@ FoxBoy and ChaoticFox Well, after reading your comments (glad you guys kept it civil), I’d have to agree with ChaoticFox about the whole who-should-be-polled thing. I mean, I get what you’re saying FoxBoy about the seeming pointlessness of polling people about something they might not care about. But I don’t think it’s that cut and dry: the sonic fandom has been greatly polarized lately (as we all know), not just by games, but by ourselves and Sega as well. I mean, if generations doesn’t solidify this identity for sonic fans, then I don’t know what will.
But here’s the thing: I don’t think the fandom really is that polarized–there isn’t only two groups and that’s it, nothing in between. This is one of the reasons hearing Izuka speak about Generations has very much annoyed me–he continually puts the fandom in these two separate bottles, and then typically gets the labels wrong. By that I mean he’ll say things like modern fans have never played the classic games, or classic fans have never really played modern games. WHAT?! I’ve played every sonic game I can get my hands on. And I believe so have most all other sonic fans. And yet he, and even the sonic community itself, constantly generalize fans into one of these two groups, which only serves to strengthen the misconception. This then makes it true, because after constantly reading how the fans are split so cleanly in half, people invariably align themselves with a side, rather than take a happy stance in the middle, or anywhere else. So then, after a while, you really do have a fanbase that’s split like that.
When you look at it in that way, as there being only modern and classic fans, who have no care or interest in other, then it’s easy to believe that a poll asking about modern sonic would be best given to modern fans. But as I said, the fandom really isn’t split like that, and I think there are more in the middle than many realize; and even those on one side or the other most likely still have opinions that are worthy of hearing, that aren’t entirely skewed. I mean, we’re all sonic fans. I may prefer “classic sonic gameplay” (though I don’t mind modern, and have enjoyed it), but I still had a strong opinion on whether modern sonic was neglected or not. Though, I didn’t really give my “opinion” because I see it more as a factual thing–sure, you can think he’s neglected all you want, but if you look the evidence critically and fairly, I don’t think you could legitimately say that. Which goes to show that while most poles ask for an opinion, that doesn’t mean your opinion can’t be fact-based. And facts are modern/classic side neutral–they don’t have a side. So just because “non-modern” fans are polled as well “modern” doesn’t mean you’ll get “wrong”, non-noteworthy, or skewed results, since they may be looking at facts, not simply considering how they themselves feel.
Now obviously, there is such a thing as skewing facts, or fact-choosing to make your side look right, but you don’t know who’s doing that just from poll numbers, which is why it’s best to poll everyone. Attempting to pole only modern fans, in my opinion would not only be a little misguided (since I don’t believe there’s a bright line down the middle, and that purely modern fans would yield little results, as would purely classic) but the results WOULD be skewed, or lacking insightful input from others, as insightful as numbers are. In any case, I don’t think it would help to shed any true, meaningful light, which is the purpose of a pole.
Any case, that’s my take on the whole thing. And it’s not directed at you FoxBoy–I wasn’t trying to preach to you or anything, I just used what you said as a jumping off point for my shpeal. A very long winded shpeal. Man I write too much.
FoxBoy you’re so fucking annoying it makes your comments an eyesore
@ChaoticFox
That itself is how it’s a word game. I didn’t blow it out of proportions. I mere didn’t say it exactly the same as you. I assumed you knew what I meant and knew that I knew what you meant, and I did.
Okay, we’re talking about Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic fans. Classic Sonic fans as in reference to the fans who are fans of ONLY Classic Sonic. Again, how can they determine of Modern Sonic is neglected if they’re not fans of Modern Sonic? They’re not fans of Modern Sonic, they don’t like Modern Sonic, so how can they say whether or not Modern Sonic is doing good or not? If they thought he was doing good and wasn’t neglected, they would like him and not be just Classic fans, they’d be Neutral fans. But we’re specifically looking for Classic fans, not just Neutral and Modern fans. Classic fans don’t contribute anything to the poll. They just make it seem like Modern Sonic is more neglected than it really is because it’s not like classic Sonic which defeats the point, suggesting Modern Sonic is neglected for not being like classic Sonic. But if THAT were true, then that’d mean Modern Sonic fans would really be Classic Sonic fans too making them neutral and it’d mean that Classic Sonic fans were actually Modern Sonic fans but felt he was neglected unless like classic Sonic. That’d make both groups Neutral fans and mean there is no difference between Modern fans and Classic fans. And if THAT were the case then asking only modern fans would be the same as asking the entire fanbase, including “classic fans”.
It’s a confusing mess that proves that the only way to logically include classic fans and still make sense is if classic fans didn’t exist and all Sonic fans were neutral fans. But I guess it doesn’t really matter since nomatter who was asked, those who said he was neglected were still the minority. That wall above is just me explaining the point. =P
@Goodman
And that’s why I said Modern and Neutral fans, as Neutral fans refers to those who are fans of the franchise in general, classic and Modern, while Classic fans refer to those who only like Classic Sonic. A lot of people don’t like to wear “labels”, but that’s ACTUALLY means they don’t want to be identified by it. Eveeything falls into a category one way or another and that’s not a good or a bad thing, it is something we have to deal with tho. And in this case, it’s not an identity, it’s just a trait related to the subject of Sonic. A description. There’s also nothing wrong with having multiple fractions of fans in one fanbase. No 2 people HAVE to agree on everything regarding Sonic. The 3 fanbase groups aren’t the only ones, just the most popular ones. There are smaller more specific fractions even. This goes as far as to say certain people like Sonic Heroes and others don’t or something similar for each Sonic game.
No, this doesn’t mean that the situation on whether or not someone likes Sonic is being taken as seriously as polotics. It’s m erely a statement based on the truth. There’s no honor or shame in what you like/dislike about Sonic. =)
@FoxBoy Hey thanks for taking the time (quite late at night too, at least where I am) to respond. I’m really not trying to gang up on you here, as two-on-one is hardly fair. Also, I’m not pursuing this for the purpose of saying ‘YOU’RE WRONG!1!!’; rather you’ve just made some points that I’d like to contest, in good ol’ debate fashion aka nothing personal.
If I could intrude once more into your discussion with ChaoticFox, where you said “how can they determine of Modern Sonic is neglected if they’re not fans of Modern Sonic?” Well, to that I say they may determine so because they may be judging the situation… dispassionately, if you will. See, despite where one may stand on the matter personally, we hope that event of modern sonic being neglected or not is an actual event: either it really is happening, or not. Therefore, we’re seeking a fact, or truth. As such, we can “trust” classic sonic fans to be able to perceive this truth and vote accordingly, whether or not they care for modern sonic. Just because I may not like a particular movie doesn’t mean I have no idea on whether it’s topping the box office or not. If I asked a Justin Beiber hater if he was popular, they’d say yes–because it’s a un-ignorable fact–and then ramble on about how he doesn’t deserve it and so on. A classic fan may hate modern sonic’s guts–that doesn’t mean he can’t see with his own eyes the apparent neglect, because as I said, we hope it to be something that’s real and taking place, or not. Does it exist, yes or no? Modern and neutral fans are by no means the only ones who can answer.
Also, I noticed you’ve said that asking classic fans would skew the results to the neglect side. If anything, I see that they would say he’s not neglected, since saying otherwise would present justification to use him more and classic sonic less, which is the opposite of what classic fans desire. I imagine classic fans would say classic sonic is the real one who’s neglected, not modern. Quite obviously this suggests skewed poll results, but you could easily apply the same thing to modern fans, except opposite–they’d see neglect. Therefore, the best option is to either poll everyone to get balanced results, or just poll the middle. Though I don’t think that all modern or all classic are that narrow-sighted, just a minority: so poll all sides.
Now, about what I said about the classic/modern labels: yes, they aren’t always good or bad, and they are something we have to deal with. I think as humans we will always label, as many times it helps simplify things, despite being at the expense of those labeled. But in terms of the sonic fandom, I believe we need to be careful about polarizing fans into one of two groups, classic or modern. Yes, I believe there are many many other stances out there, which is GOOD, but the ones getting all of the attention are modern and classic. This is bad because the more Sega, and we, cater to this view, the more true it will become. I’m not saying that someday there will ONLY be two groups, but they’ll keep growing until they dominate. Just look at Republicans and Democrats in the U.S.; sure, there are other parties, but those two dominate, and are so polarized they can rarely agree. I don’t want Sonic to become like that. The more this incorrect idea of two major parties of fans continues and spreads out, the more trouble Sega will have creating games that please everyone.
I mean, I certainly could be wrong, and perhaps having something such as modern and classic sonic as playable in every game down the line isn’t bad, though I doubt the ‘solution’ to pleasing everyone would end there. And now I’ve written too, again. Yeesh, it’s just a video game Goodman.
I like you, Goodman
I however think sega might lean towards more classic games in the future, but honestly, i am a modern fan. I love the classics and all, however im getting a little tired of the 2d transitions. Well, Unleashed gameplay for that matter. That might be why i liked sonic 2006 more than most, as crazy as the physics were, it was a real 3d sonic game to fully move around. Unleashed, colors, and soon generations are 3d, but are kinda locked into a crash bandicoot forward style.
You could say this is what sonic’s 3d games are like and i should just deal with it, but how can you say that when sonic has changed bit by bit over the years? This is why i want hub worlds in generations, to remind me im not fully locked into 2d or 3d going forward. Nothing too much just something!Trust me i love unleashed, but from 2008 until now sonic has used his boost. I dunno, i kinda want something fresh, surprise me sega, im not afraid!
It’s not “just” a videogame, Goodman.
Good reply. I don’t agree with you that polarizing is necessarily bad, since I side exclusively with the Classic crowd and, for me, the clearer the differences and the clearer Sega perceives the desires of retro fans, the better.
And I don’t believe in a single formula that will please everyone, actually. Modern Sonic games are quite different from the classic games. And I tend to think that their gameplay should be used in the special stages of Sonic’s true calling to golry: the very neglected, but still loved, 2D platformer genre (as I always say, look at Super Meat Boy and tell me the genre has grown old and irrelevant).
But anyway, good reply, I enjoyed reading it.
@ChaoticFox
And you said the cursed word for this fanbase! Debate! *shutters*
That being said, I’ve lost the motivation for this topic realizing 3 important things.
1: It’s a video. Whoever they poll it’s not a big deal.
2: The poll was already conducted so it doesn’t matter.
3: I don’t really care much about the poll and was merely curious about the results. x_x
So that’s that. xD
At least, like some others have said, we know how to keep it civil. And I feel so pathetic having to say something like that over freakin Sonic The Hedgehog. Even if he was real this would be ridiculous. XD Just another example of something we need to fix in our fanbase before we, as people, become obsessed and start showing in the common public of the real world. lol
There is one thing that I noticed tho.
Fans: All the games have sucked since Sonic Adventure 2!
SEGA: Well this is kinda similar to all the previous games.
Fans: Sonic 06 sucks! Too many glitches and we need more speed!
SEGA: Look Sonic is really fast now!
Fans: I hate the WereHog stages! Too much platforming and not enough speed. Make it more like the Day stages! And we LOVE the 2D sections!
SEGA: We’ll make Sonic Colors!
Fans: Btw, we don’t want too much speed anymore! We changed our mind about platforming and want more of it!
SEGA: There was platforming but you were too fast that you passed it. In Sonic Colors it’ll be better and more 2D sections. Also, let us know if you guys want SA3 and we might make it in years to come.
Fans: Yay Sonic Colors rocks! Why make SA3!? We should just forget about that stuff, leave it in the past and work on the Unleashed/Colors gameplay!
SEGA: We’ll make Sonic Generations! It’s for the anniversary celebration anyways so let’s merge Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic so both groups will have something to enjoy, especially those who love both!
Fans: Really? I know I said I loved the Unleashed Day stages and wanted more games like it, but they suck and are why Sonic Unleashed is, irrationally speaking, worse than Sonic 06, even tho we asked for it to be that way! And the 2D sections are annoying.
SEGA: What do you want?
Fans: We want you to listen to us!
SEGA: Have you seen the doctor? o_O
lol
Yes, if you merge the demands of two different sides of the community into one schizophrenic “fans” character, it will sound like that.
The folks at Sonic Retro, though, have always been consistent in their demands. As much as people would like to view the fanbase as a screwed up bunch of lunatics, it simply isn’t true. For the retro crowd, the demands have been there since always. Now we’re cheering because Classic Sonic is back, it’s just THAT simple.
No need to make it confusing with poor parables. Some fans, the retro crowd at least, knows EXACTLY what they want. And it has been that way from the start. Sonic Retro even has the formulas for the physics of each game of the Sonic classic trilogy. It’s THAT detailed.
Also, please be aware that no one in the retro crowd has complained about the new 2D sections of Generations. Because it looks like they got it right this time, and the game is shaping up to be what Sonic 4 should have been since the Project Needlemouse fiasco. When Sonic 4 got leaked, the retro crowd called that it would suck, and it did. Now we have a Generations trailer and it LOOKS GOOD. I don’t see anyone complaining at Sega.
@Andre
That’s not what I was doing. I was referring to the most popular demands of the fanbase as a whole, and in some cases from specific people even. It’s a hypocritical bandwagon kinda thing.
In some cases it is 2 or more groups tho, where 1 side speaks up for their opinion and actually believe they are the “majority” because “most of the fans are saying it” when actually they’re not the majority. Just the opposing side isn’t saying anything, making them seem like the only ones to exist. Then when they get what they want, the opposing side speaks up and the original group silences themselves. A FEW people will speak up on both sides causing debates. And originally, the “Voice War” wasn’t even a war between Ryan and Griffith fans. It was just Ryan fans bashing anyone who liked the 4kids cast if they mentioned liking it. Then LATER both sides started speaking up and debating. Now that we have Roger, the Griffith fans acted just like the Ryan fans did.
It’s kind’ve amusing if you look at the big picture. XD
@Andre
Also, being a retro fan yourself, I can’t trust that you’re point of view isn’t clouded by that fact. You say it like you speak for the entire retro fanbase but everyone’s different. Retro fans have changed their minds quite a bit as well, even suddenly asking for things to be a certain way in newer games that are nothing like the retro Sonic. Some of the retro fans even have their own ideas for Sonic games and fanfictions both as nutty as Modern Sonic fans. xD
I’ve heard a lot of people say that Sonic Stadium’s community was bias, but Sonic Retro was even worse going so far as to make a speculation we know nothing about and then complaining about it before it’s ever even said to be true. They ARE detailed, a little obsessed even. They have the physics and that’s good but I wouldn’t call that “detailed” because somebody was bound to do it if they ever wanted to use it for something. However when all the physics do is make you run, jump, roll and spin, I really don’t see what’s so hard about creating it from scratch especially in a 2D plane, at least for someone who does that kinda stuff. I could be wrong.
Either way. I’m not gonna hop on the idea that Neutral fans and Modern fans don’t know what they want but retro fans are so perfect. But that might be blowing your statement out of proportion, especially if it’s a misunderstanding. I also DO believe in a formula that can please at least MOST of the 3 fan groups. Why? Because the gameplays are all different but very similar. There’s a way to mix those things that will have everything all 3 groups want. Problem is, professional companies don’t think like that. They need to think new and creative and take the plunge. lol
“When Sonic 4 got leaked, the retro crowd called that it would suck, and it did.” They did not. a portion of the fanbase in general called that and it did for them. But a larger amount of the fanbase liked it including those from the Modern group and Classic group. But once again this is acase where the side against Sonic 4 speaks up and the side that liked Sonic 4 says nothing or they’ll get bashed, which creates the illusion that more people dislike Sonic 4 than like it when it’s actually the other way around. I admit tha Sonic Generations is an improvement, but it’s also in 3D and it’s freakin Sonic Generations. It’s not by Dimps. For all we know this success might be a sign of an improved Sonic 4 ep 2. They were both good, just Sonic Generations looked better. Don’t forget, IGN hates Sonic and gave Sonic 4 a 9/10. Just saying.
I know this is kinda wrong of me to say, but I’m not really looking for another discussion in what I said above. I was just throwing out info. I don’t even know why I wrote so much again. X__X
But I’m too tired to go on like this. XD I guess more ppl can toss out info too by freedom but it feel like if it were for us continuing to come back this article would be dead and in the past by now. XD
“Still, like it or not, there remains a healthy delegation of Sonic fans who prefer green eyes, pure speed, and tons of side characters over simple platforming.”
Well, darn, you didn’t have to put it like that…
I’m going to chime in here.
I’m a bit surprised that no one in the classic/retro crowd is jeering about Generations’s 2D areas, because I can point out a couple areas in the Green Hill demo video where they should be…especially in the physics department.
-T
@Tristain
Mind pointing them out then? Cuz I’m out for a loop. XD lol
@Tristan Oliver
You mean the fact that Sonic slows down in his spinball form, launches up a ramp farther than he should’ve, and immediately speeds up when going through one of those S-shaped holes? Several people have already pointed that out, but they’re forgiving it for now because it looks like they are improving and testing the physics engine, not to mention getting the character animations correctly.
Because let’s be honest: Would we really even see Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations if it wasn’t for our complaints?
@krazeeKidd102
Exactly.
As much as the retro crowd may seem like nazis, we’re not. We can notice good progress and reward it with less bitching and more cheering.
Sonic 4 was just a complete fucking mess.
@FoxBoy
My answer to you would have to be long and I don’t have the patience anymore to discuss details like I did some time ago. Sorry.
So, how about them Modern Sonic fans…
@Tristan Yeah, I’ve noticed those too, unfortunately. This time though I think there’s a little more hope they’ll get it right–well, get it better. I doubt they’ll really ever get it right, though I suppose that’s pessimistic. I guess the other reason people aren’t up in arms about it is that we’re all kinda tired; we’ve been going the rounds for a year now, and as this looks like it’ll be much better, I suppose people are more willing to relax and hold back. That is, until something comes up that blows all that away, but I don’t think that will happen.
@krazeeKidd102
Honest? Well… yes. Yes I think we would. It’s Sonic Generations. I think that Classic Sonic being in the game has nothing to do with the complaints. I DO think our complaints have something to do with why his gameplay looks better than in Sonic 4 tho.
Is it wrong of me to say that some of the flaws you mentioned for Classic Sonic’s Generations gameplay seemed more like good or unimportant things to me? XD
@Andre
Well I have no idea what you’re talking about since I’m the one who said I wasn’t looking for another long discussion anyways. It shouldn’t even come to us needing “patience”. Like I said, it’s not politics. We need to stop these OVER-detailed comments. xD
And like I said, you don’t speak for the entire Classic Sonic fanbase. Everyone is different, so it’s true they’re not all nazis. But it’s also true that some are, just like some Modern Sonic fans and some Neutral fans are. XD But who cares about them!? Why let them ruin OUR fun!? Right?
@Goodman
But remember it’s just a game. Don’t worry about it so much. Each game is it’s own project and nomatter how many good games or bad games were previously made there’s always a 50/50 chance it could be good or bad. If they can make a row of good games and suddenly bad games, they can make a series of bad games and suddenly good ones, like SaSASR, Sonic 4, Sonic Colors, and now Generations looks promising. And if it fails, there’s always next time. Think of it this way. If they try and fail and try and fail the only thing they can do is try again. Heroes always say “never give up” XD
@FoxBoy
Do you SERIOUSLY believe there’s ALWAYS a 50/50 chance for a game to be good or bad?
Holy crap, FoxBoy, think about what you wrote for a minute. Just stop and think, and try replying to yourself, pointing out how you’re wrong. I won’t even do it, you can do it yourself.
@Andre
No. I’m not an obsessed psycho fan, I’m just a guy who likes Sonic. I may talk a lot but that’s related to something else. I don’t get into it like THAT so don’t ask me to.
I’m coming at it realistically here. Every product starts off neither good nor bad and can end up either good or bad. It starts off with a 50/50 chance, and as the progress goes along the changes are swayed towards one side or the other depending on how well the progress goes. I guess it’s a 33.333/33.333/33.333 chance if you’re asking me to include a “meh, not bad but not great either” option.
Can you tell me why you had such a problem with what I said that you had to respond with such a rude tone rather than just informing me with whatever perspective or info you might have kindly? o0
Oh darn, let’s try this again.
@FoxBoy
Sorry for the tone. Alright.
Buddy, it’s not 50/50, nor 33.33/33.33/33.33 simply because when you work, you leave nothing to chance. It all depends on:
1) Whether you’re catering to your customers’ desires and expectations;
2) The talent of your team to pull it off;
3) Your budget;
4) The time your team has to dedicate to the project;
Those are some of the controllable variables that will certainly impact the outcome your project in a major way. Controlling those 4, you won’t be leaving a lot of room for chance.
Now, if you DON’T control those variables, then you’re in trouble. Basically there’s a big chance that the result will be bad. See where I’m getting at?
We should NOT pat Sega on the back and always be giving them another chance because if they fail, they just had “bad luck”. No, that’s not how it works. If the game sucks, they probably have failed hard in one of those 4 variables above.
Sonic 4, for example:
1) They claimed to have listened to their customers, but rather took a huge dump on their heads;
2) The team they chose was Dimps, which proved to be incompetent in the long run;
3) I don’t know about the budget, but I’ll bet it was low;
4) Time for the project? Episodic release… seems like they had a tight schedule.
So it was not chance… do your homework and success is very likely to follow. Take talented developers like Blizzard and Bioware, for example. They have a track record of successful games, one after the other. Do you think they are just lucky? No, they are competent. They listen to their customers. They do their homework.
If Sega fails, it’s their own fault. They have a loyal fanbase who loves their franchises, if they end up screwing up, maybe they should do something to correct their weaknesses.