Interview with M&S Devs Outline the Trouble
There will be a third collaboration between Mario and Sonic when the next Olympics title is released. There have, in the past, been murmurs of a willingness by both Sega and Nintendo to break out of that mold. So why hasn’t it happened yet?
That was explored in an interview published Monday on Spong.com. Writer and Sonic Stadium founder Svend Joscelyne interviewed the developers behind the next title, producers Osamu Ohashi and Nobuya Ohashi, along with directors Eigo Kasahara and Kohji Shindo. Joscelyne asked why the sports party game route was taken instead of a pure platformer. Osamu Ohashi responded both Sega and Nintendo discussed developing such a game, but core differences between the two franchises kept the possibilities from ever going forward:
These characters come from two totally different backgrounds, and have completely different worlds. If you do any kind of collaboration, you can’t just get them to run on one of the Sonic stages or vice versa. You have to create something from scratch, a neutral location. Nintendo and SEGA never managed to agree on just where or what kind of universe we could set a Mario and Sonic adventure in.
Then, some time ago, SEGA secured a license to create games based on the Olympics. At that point I came up with the idea of having Mario and Sonic compete with each other in the Olympic games setting. We proposed that idea to Nintendo and they were really positive and interested in the idea, so that is where we started building it into a concrete game proposal.
The interview can be read in full at the above cited link.
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well mario and sonic could try on adventure style gameplay with a few changes(jumping speed you get were i’m going.) that might actually work!
oh and about the stages why can’t you have both? Eggman could have worked with bowser to create a portal creator thing in order to conqure the world. tails makes his own version of what eggman made and Mario enters through eggman and bowsers and gets shot out of tails version. then they both have to save the world
Brawl had them both playable in subspace and that worked just fine. But I think I’d prefer something new.
hell they could even make it a classic 2.5d game even it could work like that!
You know I sort of guessed that was the reason why they didn’t make a platformer game of Mario and Sonic. Well you could always do an RPG game, some people actually want that and I have no problem with the idea but you could also try and adventure based style game with them, I can at least imagine them doing that.
But in sonic generations they are having classic sonic with modern sonic. If they can combine those two game styles into one, I don’t see why they can’t have a Mario and sonic plat former.
Off topic but:I like how in the interview the words “sonic” and “adventure” are right next to each other : )
They could do Classic Sonic and Mario
That would be pretty awesome. Although I am a fan of Modern Sonic, too. . Just Classic Mario and Sonic could work in this sort of thing they’re doing (Ex: use Sonic for speed areas, ring collecting, and jumping on enemies, switch to Mario for coin collecting, platforming, and power-ups). All you need is a “neutral” classic setting for it all, some rings and coins sprinkled around, and a loose (but still existing) storyline, and it will be a pretty awesome game. ^ ^
@brandon
so you would switch between the two like heroes or mario and sonic at the winter olympics(ds). and of course have original stages.
Alvin earthworm has been doing his Mario + Sonic crossover DBZ styled flash series for years…guess where it takes place? The Mushroom Kingdom. A neutral location is not necessary. If Super Mario Broz Z were to be turned into a game, it would be a smash hit.
@sonicdudefan1996:
Pretty much. But what do you mean “or mario and sonic at the winter olympics(ds)”? I was talking about an adventure game on a new world
Quit complaining and make it. Sonic can use Mario things and Mario can be in Sonic’s levels. Is it really that hard?
@brandon
in mario and sonic ds you could switch characters with the touch of a button in adventure tour(story mode). and yes i know there would be original worlds but it would be nice for some classics to appear. deflino plaza would be cool aong with station square.
I want a sort of Fighting game, like brawl, except with only Mario and Sonic characters.
I don’t get why they can’t just make Mario levels suitable for speed-runs for Sonic, and Sonic levels slowed down and more platformer skill-heavy for Mario. Then have them play through each other’s worlds. It’s not like one company is taking the back seat for either option. Or why there needs to be a neutral world, at least for the third game (fourth if you count Brawl) in which the two exist together. It’s not that SCANDALOUS anymore.
How about Mushroom Hill Zone?
If that’s the case, then you know what? Change the freaking genre.
Give us Nintendo Vs. Sega: A True Combat Experience, and not just some collection of minigames.
How about a non cannon series where Mario and Sonic are/live in the same world and fight bad guys? If one of the problems truly is locations, look at Sonic Rush
Rush One = Sonic’s World
Rush Adventure = Blaze’s World
btw Black spot in between Mario’s head and hand.
Use a different genre might as well think about Nintendo vs Sega.
wait, if mario was in half the game, and sonic was in the other half, wouldnt htat make mario a werehog? GASP, but then would the reviewers say its all good now caz its mario?!!?
If the fanbase wasn’t so whiny they might do it. but it’s hard tell what they want nowadays
So, they can have Mario and Sonic in each others world doing this Olympic Games nonsense, but they can’t do a platformer? What about the neutral World of Trophies in Brawl, huh? Either give us a Mario & Sonic platformer, or give us a Nintendo vs. Sega fighting game. I’d be happy with either one, personally.
Did we NEED an explanation? This is exactly what I’ve been saying recently!
I can’t even picture a Mario and Sonic platformer game. It’d end up being 2 completely different games on 1 disc and that defeats the point. You’d need a neutral location and you just can’t build a level stylized for both Mario AND Sonic.
The closest thing we have to that are when we get to play Mario and Sonic levels in Winter Games and London Games and even then it’s completely different gameplay from both Mario and Sonic. xD
Still, maybe someday… maybe someday.
Sonic for speed/platforming and Mario for platforming. If they can make other sonic characters have there own level design like sonic adventure why not Mario and sonic. There that said
@foxboy
why couldn’t the game play like the adventure series. of course with slower gameplay for mario. you can’t picture that? it’s pretty close to mario 64 gameplay. and about levels yes it would have to be original but it would be nice to see some other classic stages from both sides make a appearance(playable). maybe as extra’s…?
I was recently playing super smash bros brawl and I though how cool it would be to have Mario characters Vs sonic characters and the environments would be from their games…I think that’s possible and would be really really cool…just my 2 cents
I don’t know why, but I can imagine a Sonic and Mario game with a Crash Bandicoot style gameplay.
I don’t think M&S platformer is a good idea because everyone will say Sonic is ruining the game and then he’ll become the new werehog.
Personally, I’d rather have a Mario/Sonic RPG or Adventure Game(Similar to Kingdom Hearts in Gameplay)
Easy.
2D. S3&K style. Multiple paths/differing layout depending on who you play as.
Nintendo EAD makes it.
Free money.
A lack of creative vision is the only thing keeping this platformer game from being made? That’s not really an acceptable excuse in the world of game design and development. You’re SUPPOSE to be creative. Sad, sad reason.
What Danic and sonictoast said. It’s possible in two ways….
Option 1: Sega can create a Sonic game which will feature Mario levels Sonic (and maybe a few of his friends) could go through, with Mario enemies, bosses, and other gameplay elelements; Nintendo EAD could do a vise versa game. Everything else would pretty much stay the same. In the end, the end result would be two games with the same gameplay and setup like it’s predecessors in their respective series but with in a different setting with different level themes, enemies, bosses, powerups, etc. Sorta like Spyro Orange and Crash Purple, or Street Fighter X Tekken and Tekken X Street Fighter.
Or Option B: Nintendo and Sega collab in a 2.5D platformer game, with Mario and Sonic playing how they were playing in Super Smash Bros. Brawl: The SubSpace Emmisary.
Seriously, it’s not that hard when you look at other methods than trying to make a game with two different gameplay styles.
Makes sense.
No really, what they said makes perfect sense. All the ideas everyone in the comments are coming up with, you’re really doing nothing but finding a balance between the two play styles. That’s what these guys are saying here, a Mario and Sonic platformer just doesn’t work without a compromise.
They coulda come up with something a bit more exciting than the Olympics, but que sera sera.
@sonicdudefan1996
Nah I couldn’t. It’d be like Sonic Adventure: Featuring Mario. That’s not really a crossover, that’s just Mario being a guest start. I’d imagine a crossover would make them equals and equally express their worlds which are very different, thus do need to be expressed. But it’s hard because they’re SO different things days that the only way to do it is like Sonic and Blaze did with Sonic Rush, which, due to not being part of the same franchise the way Sonic and Blaze are, would make it like 2 seperate games on one disc. That’d be cool too, but that’s not quite what we’re looking for.
It’s a matter of “easier said than done” really. People aren’t thinking very much about it, they’re just busy thinking how cool it’d be if they were finally in a legit game together. It’d be like trying to make a legit crossover game with Assassin’s Creed and Kirby. It won’t work. lol Not that I don’t want a Sonic/Mario platformer, I just think they’re not ready to come up with that ingenious idea just yet.
I know someone mentioned Super Mario Bros Z earlier, except those don’t quite resemble either Mario nor Sonic games really. If the games played like that animated sprite series ppl would probably complain about the overblown physics.
I disagree with the inability to make a Mario and Sonic platformer, I think it could work out very well, but these people who can only imagine them in one world or another, (and so choose something bland as a sports game) have no inspiration or imagination, and should not be the brains behind such collaborations.
Y’know… I’d really like a Mario and Sonic RPG because Mario and Sonic RPG’s are my favorite. Mario Legend of the Silver Stars, Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, Mario and Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story, and Sonic Chronicles. It’d be amazing to see what combo moves they’d have.
In no way is it impossible to make a Mario & Sonic platformer work, if each fanbase could agree on a specific style the game should be and pitch to SEGA. We’d have that game made in 2-3 years. I’d personally see it play as swapping out the characters for certain parts. Say you’re on flat ground and need to punch some blocks, Switch to Mario. Say there’s a tree right next to it with a Sonic power up, switch to Sonic and get it. If two players are playing and you’re getting ready to hit a shuttle loop, hop on Sonic’s back like Diddy does in DCKR as Mario and you’re set.
(EDIT – Inflammatory -T)
I like the idea of having a cross over platformer with Mario and Sonic, but than I wonder how Mario would go around the loops (maybe a hedgehog mushroom or something). But I do agree in that they have to be in a neutral location because in fan games when I see Sonic in the Mushroom Kingdom and Mario in Green Hill Zone I get a bit…uneasy.
Si tiene más juegos eso lo haría más prolongado y talvez baje la calidad de los juegos como en Mario Party, espero que no pase eso.
@AM
Exactly. People are forgetting that the problem revolves around their gameplay when cooperates with the gimmicks in their levels which is why their words are so different. I can see Mario using springs… that’s about it.
Mario can’t do loops and Sonic can’t do no-loops for one thing. Mario doesn’t grind on rails, Sonic’s jump is different from Sonic’s so he can’t do the whole block thing (where you jump under a block to release a coin or mushroom). Sonic doesn’t ride Yoshi. And to mix their gameplays or alter them would be awkward. It’s not that there’s no imagination, we can easily imagine then crossed over. Just the only thing there is to imagine are things that have to be agreed on by both SEGA and Nintendo, which hasn’t happened yet. The only thing we can really imagine for both Mario and Sonic so far is very.. unfitting. lol ^^;
…………………..actually that makes sense. I never quite thought of it that way. But then again, what’s keeping them from making an allstar brawler between the franchises?
Why can’t Green Hill Zone be a 10 mile drive from Yoshi Island? They don’t have to pick a world, it could be the same one.
I think Sonic Generations more or less gave them the answer, which is basically you have Sonic-themed stages focused around Mario gameplay and vice-versa.
It really could happen, the Sonic Adventure Games had a similar map design like Mario 64. So apparently SEGA implies that they want to forget about the Adventure days or they just won’t think of it. I could totally see Mario in Crazy Gadget and I could totally see Sonic in Bomb-Omb Battlefield…Why they do not think of the idea? I don’t know. They could like make a Green Hill and World 1-1 remix so it would be a compromise…
@darkgomugomu
I guess they forgot or never thought if it? XD Or maybe they think they can just include that in SSB games. idk lol
@Danic
Loops, spikes, open spaces between land masses that are only crossed with springs. Stuff like that.
@Wonchop
The problem is if you make a Sonic-themed level for Mario gameplay, you wouldn’t even recognize it was Sonic-themed unless you reused old Sonic levels for the themes. But why would they use old Sonic levels and old Mario levels unless it were a mere collection game with no story? That’d fit the idea I said earlier kind’ve I guess. o_O
@sonichedgehog
Well stages like you suggested aren’t really iconic or symbolic to their franchises as a whole. And a remix of GHZ and W1-1 would be difficult as their enviroments are so different that you’d ether have a GHZ with W1-1 gimmicks or W1-1 with… GHZ gimmicks? (I find it hard to picture loops in W1-1 XD)
The “mix” can only work if the enviroment had similarities to the Mario stage and the Sonic stage but was a third original enviroment. That’s the problem tho. They can’t come to an agreement of what kind of enviroment they want their characters in. They might come up with something eventually tho. They never said it wouldn’t happen EVER just not soon. =P
well i like foxboys idea. another option is to go 2.5d with platforming that could work if they don’t do 3d. it can still have a story and all that but just done in 2d with maybe original stages.
Well, why not this? Make a game where Mario and Sonic get accidentally switched? Eggman / Bowser create/find some device that is supposed to send their respective heroes to another world, but they just so happen to get sent at the very same time – and boom! They switch with each other, and Sonic is in the Mushroom Kingdom, and Sonic is on… uh… Earth?
Sonic gets to speed through places like the Mushroom Kingdom, Yoshi’s Island, and Bowsers castle, while Mario gets to run, jump, and explore through places like Green Hill Zone, Chemical Plant, and the Death Egg. You keep the two gameplay styles distinct and separate, but throw them into new environments. PLUS, they maybe can communicate with each other somehow, and work together to topple their respective enemies, and get back to their rightful worlds.
DANG. Pay me some money Segtendo! I designed your game for you!
@sonicdudefan1996
That’s probably the best thing to do. And there’s no problem with that. Like they said, the problem is the 2 companies finding that center point that they both agree their characters can run around in. =P
@Beau
So you suggest reusing old level areas. But Sonic needs his loops and springs and other gimmicks, or else it’s just speedy Mario gameplay with Sonic skins and Mario gameplay in Sonic’s world (which probably wouldn’t be very fun as it’d be like having a slow Sonic with no spindash.)
Somehow Sonic and Mario have to retain THEIR gameplays. And you can’t alter Sonic-styled levels into using Mario gimmicks without it being a new Mario level unless you change one of Sonic’s past levels with Mario gimmicks. But you’d then need a reason why they’re back in these old places again and find a way for their gimmicks to suddenly be in each others’ worlds. This is why the “original in-between” world is needed. o.O
@foxboy
yeah and the good news is with the money sega put into sonic 4 if they don’t finish the rest of that series can be towards this. yeah coming up with a original area for them both to work together in is a little difficult. but you have to admit if they do a extra content section or dlc for p.c(project cafe) seeing stages like deflino plaza and station square in 2d would be neat.
I think it could work to create a Mario and Sonic platformer, but the only plat that comes to my mind is the two worlds being united somehow, which isn’t original. Sonic could be able to use a few of Mario’s power-ups, like the Fire Flower, making a small fire-shield and he could destroy any other enemies around him, like the Crest of Fire from Secret Rings. And why do I remember that when I haven’t played the game in years?