Music, stage selection topics of discussion
Following up from the Sky Sanctuary reveal, an interview has surfaced featuring three key figures in the development cycle: producer Takashi Iizuka, director Hiroshi Miyamoto and sound director Jun Senoue. In it are discussions about the approach to classic and modern Sonic gameplay, as well as the process of choosing stages as well as music composition. There is also more footage of certain stages, but we won’t spoil which are featured.
Find the video over at Gamespot, or over at YouTube courtesy of Woun Channel once again.
As always, stay tuned for the latest SEGA and Sonic the Hedgehog news from TGS as it happens.
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I just saw the interview (without sound… and Google’s beta subtitles arent really helpful…) Anyway, from what I saw, it seems that the modern gameplay plays more like unleashed than Colors… as in it “forces” you to go as fast as possible. And it throws random “reflex” moments (like having to slip under a wall) just to you have to remember the levels by heart just to clear it with good time… this is exactly what I hated in Unleashed.
And this brings me to the revelation I had: Everything “cool” Modern Sonic does is scripted. Without the rails, or the loops, or the homing attack or the “mega-jump-press-A multiple time”, Modern Sonic is boring as hell, and frustrating. He can’t do shit by himself. The game has to take control over him to make him look “cool”. And they have to keep him on a staight line (no exploration) because he has a tendency to fall in endless pits because of the controls.
This is not a plateformer, it’s a Quick time event game. I don’t want to play a quick time Sonic.
I know my comment is out of context in this thread but I just had to let it out. I loved Sonic Colors because he was a bit slower (because of the Wii limitations?) but it was more fun this way. It felt like I was in control and could take time to think about “should I go there or try this way”, in the 3D sections.
Unleashed asks you to press foward and “wham!”, duck under the wall…. press foward “wham!”, stoped by a small step I didnt see… jump, press foward… dead. Didnt see the hole.
Anyway, enough of my out of place ranting. I just hope Generations shapes up to be more like Colors than Unleashed (more exploration than mindless -scripted- speed).
… First! (this never gets old!!!)
How many Sonic’s friends NPC cutscenes in Sonic Generations will ever get?
There’s 2 things I wish can happen in this world.
1) For me to get $10,000,000,000 dollars.
2) For once, there ISN’T some whiny fan complaining about something.
But, alas, as long as there’s a fanbase…
Did Iizuka just mention variety when it comes to the level selection? I…. I can’t…. stop… laughing….
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHahhahahahahahahaha! I knew he had a damn fine sense of humour! Chalk another one up for Iizuka-san. His idiocy TRULY knows no bounds.
@ SonicJAM on a certain planet
Remember: Sega began to work on Generations imediately after Unleashed and before Colors. I believe that’s why the playing mechanics are similar to Unleashed and not Colors.
@André Alves
Makes sense!!!! By the way… seeing your name, tu ne serais pas francophone par hasard? Bye!
Hiroshi said that a “mysterious enemy who I’ll let you decide it might be…” sends Sonic and his friends back in time. Does that mean it’s someone who Sonic has fought before? Could it be a form of Solaris again, somehow connected to Eggman, or perhaps an amalgamation of the final bosses Sonic has fought in the past? I still have no clue. As long as it isn’t some boring one-off super being that comes out of nowhere…. (which it will probably be)
@Greg the Furry
Crawl back to deviantart and stay there, please.
@SonicJAM
I disagree, the Sonic Colors playstyle was nice, but I much prefer the Sonic Unleashed version.
And no, it wasn’t just QTE after QTE, did you even play the game?
@SonicJAM what the hell are you talking about? I love it how that entire rant was most likely based on his green hill zone level which is the first level. Have you even fucking seen his city escape level!? There’s plenty of different paths, exploration, and platforming. And I’ve talked to ppl who’ve ACTUALLY played modern sonic and they said he plays alot more like Colors. So how about you stop jumping to conclusions and wait until you see more of his damn levels to decide if his levels are a linear boost fest
Ok, usually I dnt really care too much about what Iizuka says…but his view on the levels are backwards. Not complaining by any means (I know I’ll love the game regardless) but the variety in the levels chosen for this game are not “wide”, not by a long shot. Nevertheless these are Sonic’s greatest/most famous levels in his history (with the exception of Ice Cap Zone, and I hope to God Sonic Team wasn’t dumb enough to not include arguably the second most famous level in Sonic’s franchise in either version, pleeeeeeeeeez let it be an unlockable level I dnt care what version it’s in, just let it be there!!!) Anyway these are the top levels from these games without a doubt…now it’s up to them to flex their creativity and make these levels feel absolutely different from one another.
@ Renzy
If you read correctly, I talked about Unleashed, not Generations. I had fun with the demo of Generations. And I game my view on Unleashed, not Generations. I said I feared that Generations would be more like Unleashed than Colors. What’s wrong with that? Did I say the game would suck? No.
And I think I was pretty positive in my comment, saying that I loved Colors and hope Generations expands upon its concept.
Maybe I was rough with my comment on Unleashed but my point remains. I don’t like when things go to fast and it’s more a game about doing the same level over and over again just to remember when not to jump or when to duck, just fo the sake of going fast. I don’t like it when speed becomes a “gimmick”.
So, again, because I’m a positive guy, I love the modern Sonic I saw in Colors and I’m certain Generations will be as good, even better than Colors. But can I just express my hope that they wont regress to the mindless speed saw in Unleashed? (Unleashed WAS fun, don’t get me wrong)
Correction:
And I – GAVE – my view on Unleashed, not Generations
Iizuka thinks the level selection for the game shows variety? Then why in the hell would he include zones from GAMES NOT EVEN FIVE YEARS OLD. Most fans would prefer seeing better, more creative levels like Mystic Cave, Hydrocity, Lava Reef, Twinkle Park, Sky Deck, Quartz Quadrant, Ice Cap, and Scrap Brain.
Sometimes I wish both classic and modern Sonics could bitch-slap this guy for damaging their franchise and reputation.
@QuietGuy92
Mystic cave…. how cool would this level be in 3D HD…. heck, every levels you just mentioned would be awesome! But for me, there’s one people seem to forget; Hill top zone!
@Needlemouse
Go back to playing Sonic 2006.
@SonicJam
Hill Top was kinda boring if you ask me and I would much prefer Aquatic Ruin and Starlight.
Bich bitch bitch thats all you people know how to do?
I frikkin LOVE Hill Top!
And it’s music!
@Quietguy “then why would he include zones from NOT EVEN FIVE YEARS OLD” there’s a simple answer to this question. This game is to celebrate all 20 yrs of Sonic’s history! Not the first 3 yrs!
@SonicJAM you talked about how Modern sonic in generations plays like sonic unleashed instead of colors based on what you saw. And I never said that you think the game is goin to suck. But I’m more than positive that his level design is goin to have wide open spaces, exploration, and platforming. Along with that incredible speed of Unleashed. The perfect blend between the 2 games
@ SonicJam: I too love Hill Top, DLC it please sega
@Renzy
I’m talking about recent games like Unleashed (which came out in 2008) and Colors (which came out just last year). Why would Iizuka include Crisis City, Planet Wisp, and Rooftop Run. Levels like them are too soon for a 20th anniversary game.
Though Heroes came out in 2003/2004 so that could be an exception (was hoping Frog Forest, Hang Castle, and Egg Fleet would’ve been nice for this game)
SonicJAM: stop telling the truth. You might hurt someone.
@Renzy
So finally…. we DO agree that Generation will be one hell of a game. Dosent really matter what we think about older games, as long as we get our Sonic Fix in Generations… everything will be perfect!
I know that I have been quick to assume that things “could” go bad in Generations, based on my perception of Unleashed. So, my bad, I’m emotional (like any Sonic fan, I guess)
One more thing. I love hill top because of its eery atmosphere… the music is so…. and being over the clouds is so… on the top of the world!
@Epicenter713
Hum…. I’m not sure what thruth your talking about! I only give my opinion!…
@quietguy I kno what you meant, but it’s to celebrate all of his history even if some of his stuff is only a few years ago. And believe it or not but alot of ppl have never played unleashed and colors and alot of ppl including myself would love to see classic sonic in an unleashed/colors level. I’m pretty sure SEGA is goin to release some DLC of the genesis levels……hopefully lol
@SonicJAM true, the sonic games of the past shouldn’t really effect the future sonic games. And it’s ok, sonic unleashed is one of my fav sonic games but most of the levels were linear. But from what I can see from City Escape, chemical plant and some of footage of Sky sanctuary that his levels are gonna take the colors approach and have more open areas and pathways. Hill top was a pretty cool level. But the level I really wanted to see in generations was lava reef zone. I love that level so much lol
I honestly dont agree with the stage selection either but I still love the game! wen u think about it, Sonic adventure 2 didn’t have much variety either. It only had like 4 major locations the levels were in: A city (City Escape, Radical Highway) A base/forest (Metal Harbor, Green Forest) a desert (Pyramid Cave, Egg Quarters) And Space Station level (Final Rush, Meteor Herd). Nobody complained that there were no lava, or snow levels or beach levels. and that game is a success. Trust me, Sega has no choice but to release more levels thru DLC. I guarantee it.
@Renzy
Oh man… Lava reef…. what a stage! The 2 different music for each act, the confrontation with Knuckles…. the battle against Robotnik…. epic beyond…. epic!
… God I hope SEGA releases EVERY levels as dlc! (I know it wont happen…. but hey.. I can cast a dream… get it?
)
@Jam (first comment)
I like Colors a lot more for the slower paced platforming and the fact that even the boosting straightaways are quite toned down, and during my first playthrough of Unleashed, I found the necessary memorization of the levels to be quite frustrating.
HOWEVER
I started playing Unleashed again recently, enough to start memorizing the levels, and it’s actually grown on me CONSIDERABLY. The QTEs and reflex-sensitive button presses actually become quite gratifying, and pulling off a “perfect run” is most enjoyable – something I never really bothered to attempt in the classic games.
Yeah, it’s not the same KIND of fun that I get out of a great platformer, or even the same kind of fun I got out of Colors, but it has its merits. Its just different. It takes a different mindset to enjoy the game for what it is, rather than what you expect it to be.
ps. Hill Top is fucking sweet-ass.
@ ChaoticFox
I’m starting to understand something here… With Modern Sonic, SEGA they made a kind of hybrid between a running (not a racing) game and a platformer.
I know… way to state the obvious! But following this concept and logic, Sonic unleashed (day time) works pretty well. And yes it does get exciting when you can keep Sonic from bumping everywhere.
But I must admit that this kind of game is not for me. dosent mean it’s bad! I’m (as I said a million time!) more of a Colors aproach. A good mix between 3d running and exploration (2D or 3D).
Anyway, I think I took enough space on this thread with my comments!
Oh and one more thing…. We should make a pool (just for fun) about what levels people would have liked in Generations… pretty sure Hill top would be … on top! (I’m on fire! lol)
@Jam
I’m hoping that this is the direction they use moving forward in the future. With the success of Colors and the lessons learned from the classic half of Generations, I’m hoping that the next installment with feature more of the best of each combined into one style of play. I have a feeling they’re not gonna let go of this boosting/speed-fetish, but at least they can use some of the elements of Colors/classic Sonic to add some variety to help mix things up every now and again.
I think the poll thing would be interesting. Allow people to choose one level from each game and tally the results. Could be fun to see how things turn out.
@SonicJam and ChaoticFox
A Sonic game inspired by Colors and the classic sections of Generations would be neat.
Like most fans, I like having the boost around (just keep it toned down abit). It would also be good if Sega/Sonic Team could throw in some elements from the Adventure series (mostly from SA1) every once in awhile.
Like the toned-down boosting in large open areas to explore as well as some nice platforming to go along with it with the help of momentum-based physics and good level design with the music from the composers of Unleashed/Colors.
Let Crush 40 do the Opening/Ending themes to please the younger fans.
The only thing i was worried about in the level list was Seaside Hill, and that shit looked awesome! I am 100% hyped for the game, so much that even if Iizuka said the werehog would make a return, i wouldnt give a shit! [Well to be honest, i liked the werehog (not loved, liked)] I played the green hill demo, so i know this game will work out. Nothing else matters, you guys can bitch all you like, im a satisfied customer
@QuietGuy
I REALLY miss Adventure fields, I just don’t like the stupid-ass side-quests and shit that games like 06 and Unleashed had (also hated the speed cap in Unleashed’s hub centers). I’d LOVE to be able to have wide open spaces to just dick around in… Problem with that is that they’d have to drastically change the physics that govern Sonic’s movement. He’s too fast and the physics operate on the assumption that you will be running in a straight line.
I’d also like to see rolling/spin dashing come back into play. Boosting is cool and all, but it’s not the same
All-in-all though, your proposal sounds like a clear-cut winner. I’m looking forward to what Sonic Team does next, but I doubt it will be quite that ambitious
@ChaoticFox
Seeing Sonic roll and spin-dashing (with momentum-based physics) around in wide open areas for the sake of goofing off would’ve been great. And while I like Colors as well as the daytime stages of Unleashed and the modern sections of Generations, I get this claustrophobic feeling from their level design, especially Green Hill.
But I welcome Generations with open arms as well as I am looking forward to the next big game Sonic Team’s planning.
And thanks for complementing on my post.
@QuietGuy92 ChaoticFox
When you talk about big open areas for Sonic to run in, it sounds like music to my ears. But SEGA never gave us this chance, to run freely in an open world. I remember Sonic Jam’s 3D level, sure it was slow and you had nothing to do in other than grab some rings and stuff.. but having a 3D world, death-pits free, was neat. I could take Sonic anywhere I wanted.
Now if they did this in a modern Sonic game, they would have to make HUGE levels and change the layout of the levels. It would need to be more like a GTA game, in a way. But this way, they, I think, could really do justice to some of Sonic’ moves, without having to worry about falling or dying from any hazards.
I always fought that The knukles/rouge levels would have made more sense for Sonic. They were large, open and had plenty of space to jump around. But, then again, to make a game like this, , they would have to radically change the Sonic formula and his physic.
Aaahh… one fan, one way to look at Sonic!
One last thing… any one of you know how to unlock the ps3 Generation demo? Because I still have it installed and I would love to be able to remove the damn 30 days trial. But if you need to do some programming…. don’t bother! I’m not good with computers!
@Jam
I dunno about the PS3 version, but on the Xbox all I have to do is log on to a non-live profile and change the system clock XD (it has to be non-live because a live profile won’t let you change the system clock). Maybe something similar works for PS3? I’d suggest googling it.
guys, new pic of shadow, it has the same shoe paint thing: http://images.wikia.com/sonic/images/e/ea/200px-Stewie_Griffin.png
@ChaoticFox
Thanks for the tip… I tried to get some info and all I could find was stuff that asked me to mod my ps3 while plugging it to the pc… bwaah….
So I guess I’ll have to wait to the full game though! (Maybe it’s a good thing!) It will give me time to get 100% in Sonic Colors… God I hope I wont have to get S ranking everywhere to get Super Sonic!!!
And if I have some time left, maybe I’ll get to actually finishing Unleashed… because yes I bashed the game in the past, but I did’nt finish it. Shame on me!
@Jam
To get Super Sonic all you have to do is collect all of the red rings and complete the simulator stages they unlock. S-ranking gets you nothing, but it’s fun as hell to do. The easiest way to do it is to find a path that collects you all (or most of) the red rings in one go. Pretty easy after you spend all that time hunting for the rings.
Needs more Nack/Fang cameo, poor guys been in the same ammount of mainstream Sonic titles as Silver but he gets shafted, and he is way more original than yet another hedgehog clone :/ Looks like the info about the handheld version having handheld levels was wrong too, besides Green Hill Zone there isn’t a single handheld level shown yet
Oh COME ON, Sega. That’s terrible level variety. You could at least include some of the awesomest stages ever, like Nocturne, Lava Reef, and the Black Comet.
@Shadow Nocturne? Was that in Sonic Shuffle or something? Or Spinball? But yeah, levels like Black Comet are oten ignored because of SHTH’s unpopularity.
@Bob
Shadow’s game was ignored because it’s not a SONIC game. Spin-offs don’t get representation.
I know it’s WAY too late to comment, but since the conversation consists of how we fans imagine a 3D Sonic game with perfect mechanics, I thought I’d throw my own two-bits in.
*ahem* First, I partially agree with ChaoticFox’s response to Jam’s first comment. The Unleashed levels are indeed fun when you manage to know what’s coming ahead of you. Seeing Sonic run fiercely through beautiful looking levels while controlling him is very entertaining and I can easily see where the appeal comes from.
HOWEVER, they are flawed. Many levels have some trial and error just to make up for difficulty, especially Shamar where if you don’t know exactly where to quick step, a pillar will fall on you while boosting. Even the juxtaposition of daytime stages throw people off. One person can encouraged to “BOOST BOOST BOOST” for the first three levels before facing stages like Chu-Nan and Empire City where each has instances where boosting or even running at a relatively fast pace will end up with you falling off a ledge into a bottomless pit. The less said about EggmanLand, the better. Now, although we haven’t seen a lot of gameplay from other stages as much as modern Green Hill Zone, it’s safe to say that Sonic Generations’ Modern stages will be a less potentially frustrating version of Sonic Unleashed’s daytime stages, with less reaction-required sections and bottomless pits and more open areas such as the park in the City Escape Modern stage. It’s a lot like Sonic Rush Adventure stages in comparison to Sonic Rush stages: The same speedy gameplay, but without the flaws such as an overabundance of bottomless pits and cheap enemy placement.
……but even then, this “daytime stage” formula is going to get stale after a while. For one thing, while the stages are only extremely fun to watch and play WHEN you know what you’re doing. If someone first plays one of these stages, most likely they’re going to suck. Believe me, those daytime stages aren’t as fun to watch when you see someone constantly homing attacking a spring or boosting off a ledge when they obviously should’ve jumped or messing up at the “sliding under cracks” gimmick and waddling around before realizing they can hold the slide button to crawl under the cracks. When you see someone not speed running, but playing casually…the stages don’t look so good to play. It would look bland and unappealing. For experienced fans like us, it’s painful to see someone else NOT pull off what the game encourages you to do.
WHICH, brings me to my next point: The daytime stages are designed for you to enjoy Sonic the Hedgehog……being Sonic the Hedgehog, BUT THAT’S IT. The levels are indeed straightforward, linear, and devoid of heavy platforming in order to emphasize speed, the enemies just stand there or react slowly just so the player can homing attack or boost through them, and, of course, there are a lot of scripted moments such as a ton of convenient dash pads everywhere, grind rails out of nowhere (in which switching from rail to rail reminds you of playing a cheap Happy Meal electronic), and chase scenes. It’s essentially everything that made Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 forgivable for its time, but even then, the measly collection of Sonic/Shadow stages were flawed for more or less the aforementioned reasons. Like SonicJam said, Sonic can’t do shit by himself. The levels HAVE to be claustrophobic so Sonic won’t boost off a ledge somewhere, therefore maintaining his coolness; platforming challenges HAVE to be void because Sonic won’t have room to “BOOST BOOST BOOST”, therefore still being cool; the jumping and overall controls HAS to be flawed because the engine was designed to go in a straight line as fast as possible, therefore making Sonic cooler; and speed boosters HAVE to litter the entire stage because they have to ensure the player runs through the loops (in which some of them are way too huge) because they never made a competent physics engine in order to properly run through the loops like the classics and…well, GOD FORBID the player actually do something OTHER than “run run run” to the finish line like…exploring…or just fidgeting around with buttons for the heck of it. No! Sonic needs to continue running and look cool! Plus, the mystical floating grind rails and the unnesseccary, impractical chase scenes HAVE to be there because…oh fuck it, you get what I’m saying. The developers are so obsessed on making Sonic look as cool as possible that they forgot why Sonic was cool to play as in the first place, and it’s only NOW after many games of alternate gameplay styles and gimmicks that we can fully criticize it.
It’s pretty much common logic now that the original Sonic the Hedgehog classics were VERY ingenious for and beyond its time BECAUSE of its physics engine. Everything functioned realistically: If you rolled down a hill, you sped up depending on the incline. If you jumped while running and let go of the D-Pad, you continued to retain your momentum and even ACCELERATED depending on how high you jumped from, etc. Every single level and instance of using controls emphasized flow, which is something necessary of a smooth, unique experience. That’s why people complain about physics; not because the physics engines they use are different from the classic games, but because the classic physics engine was ALMOST, IF NOT THE PERFECT CONTROL SETUP for any platform video game, and anything less would simply be flawed (especially when some of the games market themselves as having “classic gameplay”). Combine this with a challenging difficulty, gorgeous looking levels, and kickass music and you got a game that’s not only a top-notch platformer, but a game makes the player seem indulged in the game. It’s a video game, but also a cinematic experience. Seeing Sonic accelerate through beautiful stages with catchy tunes makes the player feel like they can escape reality every time they pick up the controller.
The daytime stage formula tries to imitate this concept, but is incredibly flawed in comparison. The classic games initiate this purely with a physics engine and a landscape to match, but the daytime stages initiates this with boosting and automation, especially with speed boosters, which has been the norm since Sonic Adventure. It makes you think why the daytime stages bother to have loops and curves and what not; if they have to resort to using dash pads and automation every step of the way in order to overcome those obstacles that were part of a once unique landscape for that made the franchise what it is, then all of the stages might as well be flat and lifeless. Even Mario games have a better sense of momentum by simply sliding down a hill or slipping and sliding in a penguin suit or MERELY JUMPING.
In short, a truly awesome Sonic the Hedgehog game is a unique balance of challenging gameplay and cinematic brilliance. What is Sonic Team’s problem now? They focus too much on cinematic brilliance. Plus, these design concepts have been slowly infecting even 2D titles, at first making flawed but enjoyable games from Sonic Advance 2 to Sonic Rush Adventure but now making bland, uninspiring, and forgettable gameplay such as Generations 3DS Modern Sonic and the whole of Sonic 4: Episode 1.
And the worst part? None of these seem like major issues, but ever since they’ve been advertising stuff like “classic gameplay” and “plays just like the classic games” and “THE GAME YOU WAITED 16 YEARS FOR!!!”…….it just raises our expectations. It makes any average person think that they’re trying with 100% effort when any up-to-date fan would know that they are not; they would know that they’re simply putting Sonic on a 2D plane and letting the now-talentless hacks at Dimps do whatever the hell they want, including rehashing the same engine, rehashing the level design concepts, or better yet, REHASHING ENTIRE LEVEL DESIGN MAPS. It’s merely promising something to raise our expectations just for our expectations to be completely shot down when we pay our hard earned money for the game. It’s the fucking Sonic Cycle, only updated from “massive disappointment” to “extremely disappointed knowing they could’ve done better”. If they could’ve done better, they SHOULD’VE done better.
Like many of us here, I love Sonic Colors. I love it just as much as I did when I first bought it back in November last year, but even then it still has the aforementioned problems, only slower with a better pace. It has platforming portions, which keeps the game memorable and challenging to play, but the controls themselves don’t seem designed for proper platforming. Again, they’re focusing too much on cinematic brilliance. The concept of the wisps and providing replay value GREATLY enhanced both the Wii and DS version of the game, but as far as we know, this innovative idea could’ve originated from some tired, no-name developer that probably won’t be taken seriously by the dumbass known as Takashi Iizuka ever again, who is the director of the Adventure series and the PRIMARY cause of not only the alternate gameplay features throughout the years (secondary cause being the sugarcoating reception of the Adventure games because people were intrigued by the Dreamcast technology, the Sonic/Shadow stages, and the Chao Gardens), but the flaws we see with 3D Sonic games AND modern 2D Sonic games.
My solution to all of this clusterfuck? Everyone’s already said their solution for 2D Sonic games, but what about the 3D games?
First, the controls. We’ve faced through MANY control schemes over the years, but I’d like to address two controls schemes: Sonic Adventure controls and Sonic Unleashed controls. Granted, both styles have had tweaks over the years, but they have the same similarities and problems. Sonic Adventure controls are great for slow, coordinated movement and platforming, but they are terrible when you’re going fast; seriously, it’s so sensitive that a single nudge to either direction will cause you to crash into the nearest wall or fall off of a ledge. The Sonic Unleashed controls are designed to go fast in a straight line and even have a drift feature, but they aren’t good for basic movement or platforming. Plus, BOTH control schemes are flawed when it comes to 2D platforming. What’s the solution if both styles don’t work!?
How about both at once? First, make the physics engine momentum-based. Create an engine that perfectly translates the classic physics from rolling to jumping to accelerating in 3D. Make basic movements feel like Sonic Adventure controls. However, when you do hit a certain speed limit (either accomplished through momentum or a full-charged spindash), Sonic will start to radiate a neon blue. It’ll be some kind of “mach mode” where Sonic’s handling will be similar to Sonic Unleashed’s controls. The drifting feature will stay intact as a treat for speed runners. This way, you’ll control well when you’re slow, and you’ll control well when you’re fast too! Make the physics engine work for every unit of speed with every variable or xyz point in the level landscape with the correct unit of acceleration, like an advanced calculator. The original classics were notorious PRIMARILY because their control setups were unlike any other platformer or video game in general. Today, there’re not too many platformers, and none of them take advantage of making a control setup like the classic games and translate them into 3D, so no excuse not to, ESPECIALLY when fan games like Sonic Free Runner are doing that already. It’s not too late; it’ll be the “Super Mario 64 of Sonic the Hedgehog a few decades tardy”.
Then, there’s the camera. When Sonic Adventure was being developed, Takashi Iizuka wanted the players to “feel how fast Sonic is running”. One of the ways in doing this is having this “dynamic camera system” that zooms in and out every time Sonic runs in a loop or whatever, trying to make Sonic look cool. And it does. However, in case the player does unexpected by…stopping at the loop or something, the player would have MORE trouble going through the loop with the wonky camera angle. How did they resolve this problem? Make every single loop automated. They made every single loop prescripted through dash pads or programming that makes you automatically run through the loop. The trend has stuck around ever since.
The true solution: Scrap the dynamic camera system. Keep the camera behind the back at ALL times. It doesn’t matter if he looks a bit slower and less cool without the dynamic camera; that’s a secondary priority. As for the loops, keep them standard. Don’t make loops so gargantuan; keep them large enough so Sonic can run through them and accelerate just like the classics. Again, look at Sonic Free Runner and see how they do it. Also, make sure the camera can revolve around Sonic 360 degrees all of the time. That way, the wide open areas of the level will be easier to see.
Speaking of which, make levels more wide open. It doesn’t have to be “Super Mario 64”-esque open; that idea was already impractical when the objectives of each level is to go from Point A to Point B. However, wider levels will lead to more room to put platforming portions and make use of the third-dimension. Also, NO DASH PADS! Or at least keep it to a minimum. The inclusion of a dash pad would mean that parts of the level would have to be linear to experience the speed. If there’s ANY point in the level where claustrophobic linearity is inevitable, use it to show off the physics engine. Make it a slope to roll down; anything but automation. Levels need to be very open for the sake of platforming and challenging obstacles.
Also, MAKE CHALLENGING OBSTACLES. How about some spike pits to jump over or spike balls and shooter turrets to avoid? How about enemies? First, keep the “Egg Pawns” to a minimum. The classics introduced unique, animal-themed enemies (aka Badniks) that matched the environment of each level. Use those badniks in each level; each one matching a corresponding level theme. If you’re out of ideas, make a new badnik up. Hell, Nintendo makes up new pokemon for each generation, so it’s possible that Sonic Team can too. Also, make them fast paced. The newer Sonic games either has enemies do nothing, act as a homing attack chain, or react slowly enough for the player to homing attack them or boost through them. Make them fast paced and react quickly to Sonic. That is not a bad thing; it makes the game challenging. Make the enemies have unique advantages to Sonic, and have some of them counter even the homing attack so they won’t be as much simple fodder for a one-hit kill.
Speaking of the homing attack, LIMIT IT! Seriously, the current homing attack is borderline game-breaking. While it’s nice for a crosshair to pop up in order to show what you can homing attack and what you can’t, the range of the homing attack is ridiculously long. It’s so long that it’s really easy to skip entire platforming sections. Not only do you keep the range of the homing attack short, but also make it applicable to the physics engine. Every time Sonic uses the homing attack, he should remained curled and bounce however high and far according to the speed Sonic was going before homing attacking. It’s a lot like badnik bouncing in the classics; make the homing attack like that, and be sure it’s as responsive as possible. It should not act like a set tempo because that would make things seem automated, which is NOT good.
Also, I know people have already said this, but NO HOMING ATTACK IN A FULL 2D GAME! The 3D games have an excuse because there’s no way to make Sonic’s speedy nature and fast jumping 100% precise in the third-dimension (like trying to jump on an enemy in Sonic 3D Blast). However, there’s no excuse for imprecise jumping in the second-dimension, ESPECIALLY when the classic games did absolutely fine without the homing attack. Keep the homing attack in 3D games, because it doesn’t contribute to ANYTHING in the 2D titles.
By the way, no more chase scenes. I don’t care how cool they make Sonic look; something like that will not only clash with the camera system I recommended, but it will require linearity and automation, which is NOT good. If you want to make the player feel like they’re in a hurry or in danger, that’s what time limits are for.
And now, the final part: REPLAY VALUE. Give players a REASON to replay the levels. The levels are wide-open, so therefore there should be room for unlockables like keys to unlock a special stage or medals/rings to unlock extra stages. Split each level into branching pathways that sometimes intersect each other. Or better yet, split Sonic’s abilities to be unlockables as well. The basic abilities should simply be to run, jump, spin dash, and homing attack. That’s it. One of the things I admire about Sonic Adventure 2 was that the different items that lets Sonic the Hedgehog do stuff like the light speed dash and stuff were hidden in different parts of levels.
HOWEVER, in that game, some power ups were outright required to finish the level. My suggestion? First design each level so the player can possibly finish with only Sonic’s basic abilities as mentioned above. Then, have a few power ups: The Stomp and the Light Speed Dash. Also, REMOVE THE BOOST FEATURE. Make that a VERY secret unlockable, just for the speed runners. Hide these power ups in different levels so that, when Sonic unlocks them, the player will replay the levels with these abilities and unlock MORE stuff. Seriously, stuff like a huge trail of rings to light dash or grind rails to grind shouldn’t be required for the sake of Sonic looking cool. Use that stuff to ENHANCE the level design instead of narrowing it. Also, only use grind rails in spots where it makes sense. Seriously, what started as a trend where Sonic grinded metal rails in cities and harbors is now a trend where grind rails are everywhere, even mystically floating with any architectural support in GREEN HILL ZONE. Keep the rails in levels where metal is a theme. Make those rails momentum based too, much like Adventure 2 did, only without the balancing.
And, if you want, EXPAND ON THE WISPS. The wisps were easily the best parts of Sonic Colors for the Wii and DS. They all provided the best replay value since Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Not only that, but think of some new wisps that will not only work in 2D, but in 3D as well. And all of that is with SONIC THE HEDGEHOG. If you were to add other characters like Tails and Knuckles, you would enhance the replay value even more.
That is, IF DONE RIGHT. The common misconception about other Sonic characters is that they automatically ruin the game with their annoyance. While a lot of characters ARE indeed annoying, characters like Tails and Knuckles didn’t impair the games because of their inclusion. They impaired the games because the developers made them play WILDLY different from Sonic the Hedgehog. In Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles all shared basic abilities: Run, jump, and spindash. The differences? Sonic could use the Insta-Shield and other shield abilities; Tails could fly, reaching areas Sonic and Knuckles can’t reach; and Knuckles could break impenetrable walls and climb up vertical surfaces, reaching places Sonic and Tails couldn’t reach. They didn’t ruin the game; they ENHANCED each and every level. How are those same characters doing in Sonic Adventure 2? Tails is in a mech shooting stuff, and Knuckles is on a scavenger hunt for emerald shards. In other words, they were pointless gimmicks. Do you see why people started to dislike those characters?
First, keep Tails and Knuckles’ abilities just like in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Make them have the same objectives as Sonic: Run from Point A to Point B. Use their abilities to enhance the level designs as well. Then, kill off a lot of characters from the main cast. Seriously, no one is going to miss characters like the Chaotix or Cream the Rabbit or Big the Cat. I have a ten year old Sonic fan living in Atlanta, Georgia, and he doesn’t even know who any of those characters are. Keep the character list to at least Sonic, Robotnik, Tails, and Knuckles. If you want to add other characters like Shadow and Rouge or what not, MAKE THEM USEFUL. Use them to enhance the level just like Tails and Knuckles, and if you can’t, don’t bother with using them, because it would be fucking pointless. No one likes gameplay roulettes. Hell, the reason why characters like Shadow and Blaze became popular at one point weren’t because people liked their character. They were popular because they shared Sonic’s basic abilities. If they didn’t, they’d be accused of being a shitty character just like the rest.
Alright…whew, I’m done. That’s all I have to say from a gameplay standpoint. Anyone who reads this should have a point…and I sure had a hell of a lot to say. It’d be easier if I simply made a fucking article instead of a blog comment.
And by the way, I’m not being pessimistic, or complaining, or “being a wannabe retro fag”. I’m simply stating the way things are at the moment, and I’m only delivering my interpretation on what would a perfect 3D Sonic game would be like. It’s like a “what if I created a Sonic game” situation, and unraveling my thoughts simply went on and on and on, but I didn’t want to stop. I have to post this huge comment right now.
However, it has been a whole day since I read the comments on this page, so likely no one would read this. But oh well.
@krazzeKidd102
After reading your long but VERY encouraging comment, it comes down to this:
Why can’t Iizuka/Sonic Team/Sega have the same intelligence, rationality and thought as you, ChaoticFox, Andre, Serpx, UshroM, and Greg do?
I know I’ve recently joined TSSZ only 3 months ago but during the events of “The Great Needlemouse Fiasco”, I’ve read your comments. Responding to the idiotic things Iizuka said like “classic fans are hard to please” or “we made S4′s physics different from that of the classics because we want the 2D games to move forward”. I also like how you guys try to make the younger/modern fans understand that “While people like this particular product (ex. Colors), because it is OKAY to criticize something you like.”
Sure, we Retro fans bitch, complain, and moan but we’re NOT fighting against modern fans. We’re trying to make good, quality, kick-ass games for them to play in the future. That would greatly benefit not only us and them, but the Blue Blur himself.
All I’m saying is: you guys are awesome and keep fighting the good fight for Quality.
Peace.
@Krazee
God DAMN, son. Even just scrolling past all that text takes a while! XD
I don’t necessarily agree with everything you’ve said, but you DO make quite a few good points. What I really like is how well thought out most of it is, That kind of critical thinking is the POINT of comments like these – not to get Sonic Team to do everything our way, necessarily, but to bring ideas to their attention and get them to look at how they develop games, hopefully resulting in better, more refined games that appeal to an even broader range of gamers.
And, for the record, I’ve been waiting for “Sonic the Hedgehog 64″ since… SM64, lol. Sonic Adventure was close, but SA2 got colder. Other than the fact that I hope to God I never have to endure another game with unfitting “alternate” gameplay styles, I really would look forward to a game like SA3, for the sole sake of seeing the slower-paced platforming-heavy Adventure formula coated with today’s level of polish and production values.
@QuietGuy
Word up.
You know, I skipped decent proof reading my gigantic wall of text because it was so huge (seriously, I should make a freaking fan game if I have enough time and resources), so forgive my massive amount of typos.
And it truly is sad when you finally finish this massive beast just to realize that someone else beat me to it:
http://sonictheplumber.com/opinions/?p=92
At least I can say that mine was more specific XD