![Get Ryan’s thoughts on this new direction for Sonic I don’t hate it. But if you have to start your opinion off with four words, “I don’t hate it” is […]](http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/sonic_lost_world_early_header-620x250.jpg "Gut Reaction: Sonic Lost World")
Get Ryan’s thoughts on this new direction for Sonic
I don’t hate it.
But if you have to start your opinion off with four words, “I don’t hate it” is a dark portent of things to come, right? Because those four words set up a dreadful fifth: “But…”
…it’s not the Sonic game I was hoping for.
Sonic Unleashed surprised the hell out of me (and to be specific, I am talking about the HD version). Early trailers made me cautiously curious about what that game was, and once it was finally in my hands, I gradually fell in love with it. Unquestionably, the Werehog and the medal collecting bits were a huge bummer to deal with, but once you got past that, it was the most fun I’d had with a Sonic game in years, if not ever. It turned Sonic in to a game exclusively about speed. Boost wasn’t a win button, it was a gas pedal, and the game favored racing game etiquette like proper drifting and cornering technique over traditional platform hopping. And while full of plenty of scripting to keep you on the right path, the comparison I’ve always liked to borrow from Errant Signal is that it kind of turned Sonic in to Guitar Hero – sure, a lot of it involved rote memorization, but it was about how well you could ride the game’s flow while being almost uncontrollably fast. Measuring accuracy under extreme pressure turned out to be remarkably engaging.
Sega had finally done it. They’d discovered a way to make Sonic’s extreme speed work in 3D, and above all else, I wanted more of it. A lot more.
Further Sonic games took the formula established in Unleashed and tried to “fix” it. Sonic Colors was a great game that ultimately felt kind of unfulfilling and frustrating, given an undue focus on hopping around slow, cramped environments with controls that were better suited for blistering speed than precision platforming. Sonic Generations more deftly balanced the runny-fasty bits with the jumpy-platformy stuff (my review here), but the game still felt like it was dragging its feet a little bit whenever Sonic wasn’t breaking the sound barrier. Both games simply lacked the raw thrills to be had with Unleashed, and it was largely due to a greater focus on slowing you down.
Super Mario 3D Land
So, naturally, you can imagine that upon viewing the Sonic Lost World trailer, I’m a little less than enthusiastic. The natural comparison is that this is Sonic the Hedgehog by way of Super Mario Bros. The aesthetic resemblance to games like Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D Land is more than a little obvious, with abstract, skybound environments. Some maintain that Sonic was always a platformer, and at a glance, Lost World looks to be more of a platformer than any other Sonic game to come before it. But to what end? Outside of Sonic Team openly admitting that Mario was their inspiration for Colors, Sonic’s never encroached too deeply on the plumber’s territory before. You could even say that this franchise was specifically founded on the idea that Sonic wasn’t just another Mario. Do we really need a Sonic game that can best be described as “kind of like Super Mario Galaxy, but a little bit faster”? Is that what Sonic the Hedgehog should be?
Of course, the argument could be made that nobody at this point knows what Sonic the Hedgehog should be anymore – largely due to Sonic Team’s own indecision on establishing a gameplay “base” for Sonic throughout his 3D career. A slower platformer like this definitely isn’t an unacceptable direction for them to be taking; we’ve witnessed everything from RPGs to fighting games starring this blue rodent. But Sonic’s defining characteristic across all media has always been his speed, and the games we were getting before embraced the embodiment of speed better than any others. If that isn’t the perfect way to define Sonic the Hedgehog in a game, then what is? Based on the 80 seconds of footage we were treated to yesterday, it might not be Lost World.
That’s not to say there isn’t merit in what Lost World is trying – everybody always focuses on the fact that Sonic can defy gravity by running up vertical walls and across ceilings, but I always saw that as a simplistic way of showing that he’s acrobatic. The real Sonic the Hedgehog would move something more like what we saw in the intro to Sonic CD – bouncing off walls, trees and rocks with free-running parkour techniques. Lost World touches on these elements a little bit, by introducing wall runs and ledge grabs. It does beg the question, however: if most Sonic games were comfortable expressing Sonic’s acrobatics with loops and other extremely sloped environments, does the addition of a wall-run ability mean Lost World will consist of mostly straightforward, hard-angle stages? Sonic’s always done better with winding, rollercoaster-like slopes and valleys, and outside of a few brief glimpses of more snake-like loops, most of what we were shown involved running down an oddly flat-yet-curved environment with very few changes in elevation or gradient.
Not seeing much in the way of slopes here… but it looks cool.
Of course, what was shown was pretty visually striking – with abstract configurations of tubes and half-pipes stretching across the skies. It gives the game a pretty distinct look, and while it does summon comparisons to Super Mario Galaxy, it does enough to define its own unique visual aesthetic separate from Mario’s. I do worry, though – there was a time where bottomless pits were considered to be the most notoriously awful part of 3D Sonic games. More recent games like Unleashed and Generations have made it a lot harder to fall out of level boundaries, but Lost World seems to introduce level designs that have a considerable number of bottomless pits and 90 degree hairpin turns. And while the art direction itself is striking, the visual fidelity leaves something to be desired – I’m seeing a lot of flat textures and simple, blocky geometry. Not that it looks especially ugly, but after Unleashed and Generations, it can look a little plain in certain places. Thankfully, these early screenshots seem to be making up for that with a bold sense of style.
Ultimately, it’s probably a little too early to be making definitive judgement calls on how Sonic Lost World will turn out. I’m certainly open to the possibility that the game will pleasantly surprise me much like what happened with Sonic Unleashed. But part of me also hopes that Sega still has a “normal” Sonic game planned for the other consoles. Because that’s the thing – in spite of Takashi Iizuka telling IGN that this was the new direction he wanted to explore post-Generations, Lost World simply feels like another spinoff game to me – something not too dissimilar to Sonic & the Secret Rings, or even Sonic Colors (something that is reinforced by the reveal of Lost World‘s “improved color powers“). The fact that Sonic Team would start over fresh after finally finding their groove with games like Unleashed and Generations is still something I’m having trouble wrapping my head around, because it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense except in the context of this being a weird experiment born out of their contract with Nintendo. And I’m completely fine with it being just that – the real question is where this franchise goes after Lost World. Unfortunately, it could be years before we’ll have a sufficient answer.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. However, I think the parkour may be the saving grace for people who aren’t exactly speed demons. Since they already stated that coming to a complete stop is less of an occurrence, I’m interested to see how well it’s incorporated. Maybe the parkour could offer even MORE free-form speed-running techniques and styles. Say you’re flying through the air, but miss a ledge slightly. The parkour could save you from that. It would still mean more time on your score than a clean landing, but it lets you continue with a lot more room for error.
This of course is all speculation, but I’m more piqued from how they pull this off than how good the game actually will be.
Also, it’s kinda scary how much you matched my feelings in this article o_o
I’m gonna put my opinion. Not trying to argue or anything with anyone. Im sorry if noone agrees but here it is. Well, story wise, it can meet in the middle like Sonic Unleashed, where as its light hearted when needed and serious/dark when needed. Nothing too serious.. cause when i was little, that part in the last story of SA2 where they were really Gerald Robotnik’s diary creeped me the hell out. Yeah, the kiddish stories does match Colors and apparently Lost Worlds cause of the cartoony art/level design. Now do i really think it matches Sonic all around for the cartoony design?? No not exactly… And i know what everybody says “Well isn’t Sonic a talking cartoon hedgehog???” Well, yes. BUT..
For about 8-10 years, (1998-2006 or ’08) you can say that Sonic was placed in a world with realistic looking humans. In the games, and hell even the anime Sonic X. And i grew up playing the adventure series. Yes, the classic but adventure too. I can honestly say i saw him in that environment and didn’t really think twice about it. I mean i just can’t get used to him being in a Disney looking environment. Honestly after the first 2 Adventure games i didn’t really imagine him back in his little “South Island” area, i mean that could because that’s what i saw as a kid, and i grew up with that in my system, idk.
Whereas the gameplay goes, when Unleashed came out i thought that style of gameplay (modern) was just a one time thing, just to give the series a good, well created game with something new (Don’t get me wrong, the werehog stages KILLED my ass). I never played Colors though but i thought “cool, they went with the Unleashed gameplay style, but its kinda kidish). I picked up my copy of Generations and i played and beat it. I thought it was an amazing game. But the story was lacking and it didn’t take hardly no time AT ALL to beat Generations. I mean i guess i look down on the modern cause i had too much fun and time beating A1, A2, Heroes, STH, (Hell, Sonic ’06 had ALOT flaws but i did like the Adventure formula on an adventure game and didn’t have too much of a bad time playing it). I think my point is i probably look down on the Modern/New gameplay gimmicks is because i’m still trapped in the Adventure era. Maybe i am an Adventure fanboy. But i don’t care for an Adventure 3 game though. Just the game style.
*Reading his diary
The problem with Unleashed styled gameplay (and Colors/Generations by proxy) is that they are damn near inaccessible for those unacquainted with the franchise to pick up and play.
Unleashed did a number of things right and had a fair amount of effort put into it. From the meticulously designed hub worlds to the bubbly incidental characters, it’s clear that a lot of love went into it. That being said, it was the introduction of speed and adrenaline being the driving force behind this franchise which resulted in breath-taking but immensely shallow trial and error twitch based gaming. The genesis games were easy for anyone to pick up and play. It was instantly intuitive to curl into a ball and platform at relatively high speeds (still no where near as fast as sonic goes while using the boost in modern games). What we have now (as the video you’ve linked to demonstrates) is a kind of game that only the most devout/hardcore fans will be able to get into because of the reflexes and memorization required to play levels fluently. At numerous points in the level are these terrible hazards that would instantly kill the player at the slightest of mistakes (the wall running and water running were especially unfair). Generations, while an improvement, still relies too heavily on scripted events and set pieces to get a reaction from the player. Obstacles and platform whizz by at speeds that you would need to be super human (or have played the level MANY times) to even react in time to.
Colors addressed these concerns slightly by slowing the game down with extended platforming sequences and limiting the amount of boost the player had to work with. It’s because of this that Colors is perhaps the best post SA1 3d sonic game to date, trumping Unleashed and Generations with its careful level design and willingness to take things slow.
Lost World being more like a “faster mario game” is honestly the best news I’ve heard regarding the franchise in a decade. Sonic should be above all things a joy to control. It excites me that they are looking for new solutions regarding controlling the character’s speed as well as how he interacts with the environment.
This is a problem I feel has long plagued the Sonic series and is the single biggest thing stopping it from being something bigger and better. In fact, I’d go on to say that it began with Sonic Adventure: You need to be pretty hardcore to put up with its weird spontaneous glitches and play what is essentially seven smaller games, each with their own complicated mechanics.
From then onwards, it’s only become more and more beginner-unfriendly (among the home console games, at least–Sonic Heroes is the exception), and I feel that culminated in Sonic Unleashed. When you make your games beginner-unfriendly, you lock out other people, and you get diminishing returns.
Sonic had been stuck in quite the dilemma since: With each game that shut out newcomers, the loyalists became even more loyalists. By the time Generations came out, much of the remaining fans are those who like these new mechanics. Iizuka would thus have to choose whether to stick with the formula and keep the existing fanbase, or make a new main series Sonic game from the ground up and create a new fanbase at the cost of alienating much of the old one. I think he made the right decision here–it keeps Sonic from getting too stale.
P.S.
I mean “the loyalists became even more loyal.”
I should also explain that Sonic Heroes is the exception because while you had to learn three sets of moves, they were all platforming control schemes. It was also a rather slow Sonic game, with speed sections mostly being transitions to the next segment of the stage.
It’s still not nearly as intuitive as any main series Mario game, but it was by far the easiest to understand among any Sonic game between Sonic Adventure and, I dare say, Sonic Generations.
Ophelia, you’re exactly right! There’s a reason why the series is having a hard time breaking 2.5 million copies world wide these days. Franchises need to be growing in order to survive, otherwise as you’ve mentioned we’re stuck with diminishing returns. Instead of pandering to us they should focus on making a game that’s enjoyable for newcomers above all else, a game that is fun to control and about half as frustrating and complicated as the past 5 titles have been. I remember feeling like we had gone completely off the deep end when during the loading screen for Unleashed, they try and remind you what the controls are (http://i2.listal.com/image/1192035/286full.jpg) because there are now so many abilities and maneuvers that almost every button on the 360 pad is scripted to an action!
We’re getting closer though, I can feel it! Each title is growing progressively more charming if not streamlined. Hopefully apart from using the triggers to control sonic’s speed, there isn’t much else to the game. I’m confident that audiences are as ready as ever to embrace Sonic as a gaming icon again. Given the right steps there are plenty of fans out there to be made!
This whole conversation makes me happy.
You say that Sonic Unleashed is inaccessible to those unacquainted with the franchise – how? Sonic Unleashed actually bucked a lot of trends and struck out on its own as far as gameplay systems go. Wouldn’t that mean EVERYBODY was unacquainted with it?
There’s nothing wrong with memorization – a lot of games rely on a degree of memorization in order to be properly played. Practice makes perfect, and all of that. Just because the game wasn’t made for you specifically does not mean it is automatically invalidated as something that can be enjoyed by others.
What I’m saying is that you needed a certain amount of patience/dedication to enjoy Unleashed. Something that to my knowledge only fans of the franchise have in the first place. Most people aren’t going to put up with the amount of cheap deaths and slamming into obstacles that are present in all three Unleashed styled games.
I dont mean to invalidate the game or objectively claim that others can’t enjoy it. But from the perspective of a general audience member I found it to be too unforgiving and demanding to ever be a hit. That’s why I’m glad they’re moving away from this style of gameplay. Speedrunning is very cool but will only ever appeal to the most hardcore of players.
For the record I really enjoyed Unleashed, Colors, and Generations myself. But the popularity of this series just isn’t growing and I believe inaccessibility has a lot to do with it.
I see it a different way – nobody wanted to bother to figure out Sonic Unleashed because they were burned in so many other bad Sonic games that they refused to accept one that actually managed to do some things right.
It wasn’t until Colors and ultimately Generations that more people became receptive to the fact that Sonic games might actually be enjoyable again, but Colors and Generations owe their entire gameplay legacy to Sonic Unleashed. I’ve actually seen people out there in the wild that have through Generations gone back to Unleashed and admitted it probably had better Sonic levels.
The game’s uncontrollable speed had nothing to do with it, otherwise games like Burnout, Trackmania and F-Zero GX wouldn’t be as beloved as they are. There is a place for a superfast game like this, and Sega’s abandoning it just when it seemed like they had finally found their footing.
Unleashed was terrible.
That is all.
YOU’RE TERRIBLE
He’s not wrong. Unleashed was pretty sucky.
Unleashed was citizen kane compared to what came prior. Context is important.
Ehh… it was mediocre. I don’t think it was terrible, but it wasn’t a spectacular experience. Especially with the Werehog, which although I didn’t have too much of a problem with it, nighttime stages didn’t get fun until you’re damn near done with the game when you’re already leveled up to the point where you can one shot most common mooks and most of the minibosses are no problem, and most people don’t want to have to sit through all that tedium.
>gets shown a trailer of the easiest stage in the entire game
>pretends to think that the entire game is like this
How many times are we going to repeat this process guys? How many times in history must we do this?
How many times are we going to repeat the process of people leaving comments on articles where they either didn’t finish reading or didn’t understand the point?
Both these articles and posts exactly like the ones you’re making are always going to exist. They existed before the era of the internet, and will continue to exist long after the internet.
You should really just relax.
I think Sonic Lost World is going to be fantastic because the focus in on CONTROL! I’m really interested to see how this turns out because the modern Sonic in Unleashed, Colors and generations controlled terribly when you weren’t running 300mph. It’s like, I’ll be able to control Sonic with the same precision as in the Adventure titles, but in a modern Sonic title. Really psyched up for this one, I think it’s going to be awesome.
And also, I approve of Iizuka starting fresh even after the recent trend of modern Sonic games. I never cared to much for it anyway. I mean, I think generations really nailed it when it came to the balance between speed and platforming, what an outstanding game that was! But seriously, they aren’t completely remaking the new Sonic formula, but just trying something new. They always do this with their Nintendo exclusive Sonic titles, and I’m sure that the next multi-platform Sonic will be back to normal, but if they could find a way to mix awesome control and blistering speed, like Lost World seems to be going for, it might be the best thing that’s ever happened to the franchise ever!
Mix all of this with the fact that NINTENDO is co-developing it (At least, I thought they were…), and I think this is going to one no Sonic fan will want to miss! I also like how rescuing animals is useful. They’ve never done that in a mainstream Sonic. It’s just the tiny, but cool little additions, I find, that really make the game interesting!
Wow… I didn’t think I’d see something like this where someone agreed with what I felt so much.
I mean, I agree that his defining feature is his speed. That’s what makes him special. I think Generations is an improvement from Colors and Unleashed as they both seemed to be too much of one of the two elements while Generations was a nice blend which could only improve by allowing for more adventure such as in the explorability of Sonic Adventure. And at least Tails and Knuckles playable in S3&K/SA1-2 kinda way (gameplay-wise, not objective-wise)
So this game does look fun to me, with the parkour and wisp thing and all. It even seems a bit complex. I like that they’re finally re-tackling the Sonic X-Treme idea too cuz it’ll be fun.
But as a game it doesn’t really have a “hook”, it does look plain, it comes off as a spin-off title to me as well, it doesn’t really define Sonic and shouldn’t be the continuing direction of the series, and many other things you listed.
I DO think it looks creative as heck tho. A little TOO creative as it reminds me of any other cartoony platform/puzzle solver game with twisted complex rules and controls. lol But we’ll see how it goes.
So deviating from the hedgehog engine is bad? You guys aren’t really giving this game a chance. If they had used the unleashed style, this would’ve been the 4th main series game in a row with almost the EXACT same gameplay. As stated before, its causing the series to get stale and driving away newcomers who prefer something. As to what Sonic should be, who says only one style of gameplay must define the series? The only two constants should be speed and platforming. Just because we’re stepping out of the comfort zone here doesn’t mean it’s a step in the wrong direction.
Pretty late to the party here, so I doubt anyone will read this, though perhaps Ryan might.
First off, good article; you raise a lot of fair points, and you sum up some of the big evaluations and feelings everyone’s having–namely, its (so far) similarity to Mario Galaxy. And like many of us, you’re optimistically cautious.
There are a few bits I respectfully disagree on, though. In your third big paragraph, when you begin to discuss how it compares to Mario Galaxy, it felt like–to me, at least–that you were taking this idea of “encroaching on the plumber’s territory” (which, of course, this game IS doing), and getting it mixed up with being a platformer. Mario doesn’t own the platformer genre; being a platformer doesn’t make you a Mario spinoff. This is why the original sonic games could come across as so original, despite the fact they WERE platformers. Mario had flat ground and a slower pace; sonic had slopes and loops and speed. So I would say that just because a sonic game is more of a platformer doesn’t mean it’s encroaching on Mario’s turf. It has to do more. (And Lost World certainly seems to be doing that)
Furthermore, I would say that while yes, SONIC’S defining characteristic is his speed, when it comes his games (especially the classics) it is not. Of course, speed was always his selling point, ever since day one (“Blast Processing” anyone?). But that’s because Sega had to differentiate the game from the current market dominator, and their rival, Mario.
As an analogy: if I built a vacuum cleaner and wanted to compete against all the other models out there, when I went to advertise it I wouldn’t say “it can suck things!” because of course it does, and that’s no different than any of the others. I would need to find something it did differently than anyone else. For Sonic, what was different from Mario was his speed. Mario was a platformer, and only showcasing sonic as a platformer wouldn’t have really turned many heads.
But just like how my vacuum cleaner’s primary purpose is still to suck things, Sonic is still a platformer. His selling point was speed, it is what he himself as the character is known for, but the games–what everyone played, what made him famous–were platformers, and not just about speed.
So making a game that focuses entirely on speed is contrary to his roots or foundations. That doesn’t make it a bad game! It simply means it’s not a “pure” sonic game, and the whole reason I’m bringing it up is because it felt like you were implying this in your above piece. I believe that sonic’s home is in high speed platforming–for his games. He is and always will be about speed; but his games, I think, should not.
You’re right, being a platformer doesn’t make you a Mario spinoff – but I feel like combined with Sonic Team’s comments regarding their decisions on Sonic Colors, plus the obvious aesthetic similarities to Mario in Lost World, that it’s obvious what they’re going for: They want to make a Sonic game that appeals to fans of Mario. They dipped their toe in to the pool with Colors, and now they’re winding up to dive in head first.
You’re right that speed was not always Sonic’s most defining characteristic, but I’d say that with the many different hats Sonic has worn over the years and how much his gameplay style has evolved that at least to some degree, once he moved out of the Sega Genesis 2D games he had trouble finding his groove.
Mario had to evolve in order to work in 3D, but Sonic tried to stick to similar structures and mechanical memes that defined his 2D games. Sonic Team really fought hard to keep Sonic close to his “roots” – tacking on weird gimmicks like rival systems and teamplay mechanics and RPG elements without significantly trying to evolve certain other archaic gameplay elements. Sonic Team was infatuated with trying to recapture the magic of the 90’s without looking forward to where they needed to go next.
I see a game like Sonic Unleashed being this franchise breaking free of the shackles of what used to be and going off in bold new directions. There are no shields, no power-ups, no little TVs with 10 ring icons on the side. Sonic Unleashed re-invented a lot of how “being a Sonic game” was defined, and Colors and Generations continued that trend, with Generations once again trying to pull the franchise back to its roots. And it worked, sure, but it didn’t work as well as the daytime stages in Sonic Unleashed did, because it lacked that purity of vision. They were trying to imitate something for the sake of nostalgia, and as we saw with Sonic 4, they’re really, really bad at doing that.
By all intents and purposes, even though it is surrounded by a lot of less-than-stellar ideas, the daytime stages in Unleashed were Sonic’s Super Mario 64 moment of being WAY different and it working.
And now they’re saying “Eh, Super Mario 64 wasn’t good enough for us, let’s re-invent the wheel again and maybe stick closer to Sonic’s roots this time.”
And I’m just shaking my head, because I’ve been here before, I know how this typically ends, and that has me worried.
It’s just too bad that Sonic Unleashed was pretty mediocre.
I don’t think so at all! It does a lot of things remarkably well and is pretty intelligently designed for the most part – except, of course, when it comes to the Werehog stuff or having to collect medals. And Eggmanland’s kind of dumb.
I think some people do not appreciate it enough because they were either so burned by other Sonic games that they refuse to even try to enjoy Sonic Unleashed, or they’ve already made up their minds about what they think a Sonic game should be and because Unleashed doesn’t fit in to their neat little definition, they write it off.
When Sonic Unleashed is good, at least in my opinion, it is one of the best Sonic games ever made.
Oh yeah Sega’s definitely taking the route of imitation on this one, no doubt about it; and I don’t necessarily consider that a bad thing, since personally, I WANT more platforming in my sonic games, for reasons related to my original post (what I don’t want, however, is a sonic that looks or feels too much like mario, or at all really; but what to do if that’s the only way to get a game element I want?).
I’m pretty sure though this disagrees with your own wishes, and that’s okay, in that I’m not saying you’re “wrong.” I mean, we all have our favorite sonic games, and we want new ones to continue in their direction. We passionately defend the games we like. And that’s not to say we don’t use facts and objective observations to defend our stances either. Put me in charge of making the next sonic game, and I know exactly what kind of game I’d be making–and it would be one that does not follow in the path of any of the others, but rather a fan made game (which follows the classics). But put others in charge of Sonic, and you’ll get different results.
But perhaps I can assauge your fears a bit. Namely, I think you and I are giving too much credence to what Sega has been saying about their “new direction for sonic” without giving much consideration to their, shall I say, squirminess. Maybe I’m being too harsh, but all in all, I’m not classifying this as the new definitive direction for sonic until I see what they have planned for Sony and Microsoft. This may well be their direction going forward for Nintendo, but unless this is also what they are doing for the other two consoles, you might not have to worry quite as much. Though I WILL say that there probably wont be another game that plays exactly like the daytime stages in Unleashed ever again. I think this is due in part to the feedback they got from it, as well as the feedback from Colors and Generations.
While this doesn’t really bother me (well, not for the same reasons as you), I can totally see and understand why it bothers you, and as a fellow sonic fan, I’ll feel your frustration. Like, really. Everytime Sega does something I legitimately think is a bad move or a wrong way to go, I die a little on the inside. It’s pretty clear to me that you really loved Unleashed, so it’s rough that in many ways Sonic seems to be moving away from that. While Unleashed isn’t my most beloved game, I do have my golden idol, but let me tell you, the chances of Sega ever going down that path are one in a million. But I legitimately believe it to be THE best direction for sonic, one that encapsulates what he was originally.
Which brings me to an observation–if I may be so bold–about you and I, and that is this: we both have two fundamental–and different–assumptions here about the “proper” direction for a sonic game. I know I can certainly speak for myself, and for me that assumption is that sonic’s proper direction should be in line with the very innermost core elements of the classics (and I’m not talking about ring boxes or power ups). Now correct me if I’m wrong here (and I very well may be) but for you, I think that assumption is that the proper direction can–and perhaps should–be something new, which WORKS in 3D but still encapsulates the core ideas of Sonic, i.e. his speed.
Ergo, for me, I’m still looking towards the classics (which trust me, have never been close to realized in 3D, by my standards), and for you, you’re looking towards Unleashed. After all, you said it yourself, Unleashed redefined many things about Sonic, and if you held this sort of “purist” notion–more along the lines of what I do–you’d probably see Unleashed as violating what sonic should be as opposed to redefining him in a necessary and good way. And personally, I don’t see it as a violation either.
All this amounts to me saying: I think there’s just some things you and I are going to disagree on when it comes to where sonic should go, and what’s his best iteration for 3D. This is one of the reasons I’m trying to avoid discussing whether Unleashed was a good game or not, because I don’t think it would get us anywhere in the topic of where sonic should go, since we both have fundamentally different ideas about this; we’ll just keep disagreeing on certain key points. But I will say I greatly enjoyed the Day stages in Unleashed, and will be forever thankful to it for FINALLY giving me an Ice stage that could bring me close to the enjoyment I get from Ice Cap. SO finally. I waited forever for that!
Anyway, if you would actually like to hear my opinions on Unleashed, and what I do think about it in regards to Sonic’s “proper” direction, or just what that dirction specifically is for me, I’d be happy to spill the beans. Though I can’t imagine anyone wanting to see me talk any more haha. Case in point: I could talk about sonic FOREVER (as could we all). So feel free to indulge!
I’m curious as to what your “golden idol” is. In reading your thoughts it appears that we both want the same thing out of this franchise, which is to slow the game down and to let platforming take center stage again.
I don’t know why the commenting system won’t allow us to have longer discussions(perhaps we should take this debate elsewhere) but oh well. Anyway, I appreciate the points you’ve been making and do agree to an extent that the Unleashed style of gameplay offered something truly remarkable and unique.
I have to insist though that the comparison you’re making to Mario 64 isn’t accurate. Mario 64 was an enormous success because the game worked on a fundamental level and brought platforming into the 3rd dimension with confidence. It is light on glitches, and is easy for anyone to pick up and play. Most of all it was a success as a quality product.
Unleashed on the other hand is anchored down by tedious medal collecting, a mediocre beat em up component that dominates well over half the play time, and some truly unforgiving late game stages on the daytime side. I think that if the game had been fully comprised of levels like Apotos and Mazuri(which I personally think is one of the best sonic stages ever made, period) then I would be more inclined to agree. Unfortunately the day time stages for Adabat, Shamar, Empire City, Holoska, and eggmanland are terribly designed monstrosities that punish players relentlessly and will test the patience of even hardcore fans. It’s true that if you muscle through these stages and practice you may find something incredibly rewarding and satisfying. But this kind of required dedication is what makes this style of gameplay completely unmarketable. I think the truth is that we’re still waiting for our Mario 64.
With regards to the games you’ve listed that are similar in their sense of speed/difficulty/frustration, those are incredibly niche titles with the exception of maybe burnout(But can burnout even be grouped with F-zero/Sonic? It’s a game about smashing into things after all) You’ve only enforced that for Sonic to be more accessible, he needs to try something else.
You’re not looking at Mario 64 in the right light – I was not saying Sonic Unleashed was as technically good, I’m speaking more in terms of design, and in relation to that, I am ignoring a lot of the “filler” content in Sonic Unleashed and focusing on the meat of what I find fun about that game. In that essence, the leap from 2D Mario to 3D Mario is similar in terms of how much 3D Mario had to change in order to adapt to the format.
Furthermore, you say that Super Mario 64 was easy to pick up and play, but it really wasn’t. Going from controlling games with a d-pad to an analog stick was like learning how to walk again and I remember Super Mario 64 being BRUTALLY difficult in that regard, especially towards the end of the game – Rainbow Ride and Tick Tock Clock were considered basically impossible around these parts. With 18 years of experience with 3D platformers under my belt that’s a different story, but that certainly wasn’t the case in 1996.
Nevermind the fact that while my mom absolutely adored Super Mario World and similar 2D platformers, she loathes Super Mario 64 because she doesn’t know what to do. The open environments confuse her because to her they are directionless and boring. Talking with him about it over the years, our own ex-writer Solus also wasn’t entirely warm on Super Mario 64 either.
It’s funny – the stages you mention for Sonic Unleashed as being terrible are actually some of my favorites – notably Adabat, Shamar and Holoska. You’re right about Eggmanland, however, but that’s mainly because it takes many of the lessons the rest of the game teaches you and intentionally does the opposite in some areas.
As for whether or not the games I listed are niche or not is a matter of opinion, but most of them have 85+ on Metacritic, which qualifies some of them as the being the “must-have” games on their respective platforms, if you ask me. And while you could say Burnout is a game about smashing in to things, crashing in that game is still usually considered a failure state.
Oh…. Darn…. It’s not gonna use the crashing into everything speed and hazards. It’s not gonna bring back the tedium that was featured in Unleashed. It’s the end of the world!
I honestly don’t get what the big deal with the speed boost is…. I miss the times when Sonic ACTUALLY had speed, precision, and control.
@Ryan Bloom
Yeah, there wasn’t anything ELSE wrong with Unleashed. Not like Sonic never crashed into everything and the fact that speed boosting is required to mask everything bad about unleashed.
I thought a Sonic game should be about Speed physics, control, and platforming. Exploring and gaining speed was supposed to be rewarding. Unleashed does the “hold down the button to win” mentality and doesn’t do it well.
Sonic only crashed in to things if you didn’t understand how to play. If you miss a lot of notes in Guitar Hero or Rockband, you’re gonna fail those, too.
Just because you personally did not like it does not mean it was wrong.
See:
“…or they’ve already made up their minds about what they think a Sonic game should be and because Unleashed doesn’t fit in to their neat little definition, they write it off. “
Difference (don’t know why you even compared it to Guitar Hero or Rockband), you can actually SEE the notes before you actually pressed the buttons. Unleashed is based on trail and error and it doesn’t help that you need to speed boost everywhere to pass by the obstacles.
I can say the same thing with your article; you just wrote off the possible good things Lost World could benefit from not using the Unleashed style.
Also, after three straight games, I’m fairly certain that people would want to try something a bit more different than playing a 4th unleashed game.
I could see just fine in Sonic Unleashed. I’m no stranger to hating trial-and-error gameplay; go read my Sonic CD review for more on that. I know it’s a cliche, but I just don’t think you are suited for those types of games. But I am, and I want more of them.
Sure, yes, Sonic Unleashed requires a little bit of memorization to get good at the game – but all games do. Try Contra 4 on the DS and tell me you can beat that game without practice. You can’t. For a more recent example, try Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor’s Edge, released just last year.
Or how about belovedly fast games: F-Zero GX, Wipeout, Trackmania, and Burnout. I could keep going. Some of them are faster than Sonic Unleashed, even.
Nobody’s faulting you for not being able to keep up, but it’s not an issue with the game.
I don’t think three games was really enough; especially not to scrap literally everything and start over. The core design of Super Mario Galaxy 2 was still derived from Super Mario 64, after all, and Galaxy 2 was the fourth game in that mold (64/Sunshine/Galaxy/Galaxy 2). Depending on what they show at E3, we might even get a fifth game like that.
@Ryan Bloom
Good for you.
Those games never had something that went FULL SPEED.
Those games never had ridiculous hazards like spikes, enemy placements, or a cheap win button.
So it’s my fault for the buttons not responding when I go crazy fast?
You know, I think it would be suspicious that a 4th game used the Unleashed style of gameplay. Because the Unleashed style usually involves speed boosts, enemy placements, and hazards. Plus, sunshine never played like 64, Galaxy, or Galaxy 2. And 64’s design was nothing like Galaxy or Galaxy 2.
When was the last time you played F-Zero GX? There are entire tracks based around the fact there are no walls to keep you on the road so you can fling yourself off in to essentially a bottomless pit and you automatically lose the race.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrYIg8Ux1cI
Imagine being 3 minutes in to a race, on the final lap, and you slip off and die. When that happens, you have to restart the entire race over from the beginning. I’ve never been able to finish Story Mode on Normal difficulty, and there’s Hard and Very Hard difficulties on top of that.
Honestly the only things that worry me about Lost World are the Sinister Six designs (I don’t hate them, but I can see why people do), what this might mean for the tone, and the absence of Sonic’s friends as playable characters yet again. I’d almost bet even the multiplayer will have multiple Sonics again. Sonic’s only like my fourth favorite character, I was sick of playing as just him a long time ago.
If you were to get hit in sonic unleashed/ generations/ colors you would come to a complete stop. The environment can stop you in your tracks as well. Despite the success of Unleashed, Sonic does have a hard time getting around environments than aren’t clean. Fans did ask for more jumping. While sonic generation did provide, it doesn’t mean it was very good. The amount of precision to land certain jumps was too high. In comparison to sonic unleashed most will die due to their own rash actions, slowing down will ensure less deaths.
the same mind set from colors will be applied to sonic lost world. Classic will be fit accordingly. Take a look at sonic colors for example. Motorbug was fast, Drillmole clashes and slow your ascent to the surface, catakiller is placed on easy to climb high point shooting at you. Unlike generations classic elements weren’t trying to be rekindle but fit in accordingly to be used fully.
Sonic colors weakness were hidden which is why you didn’t get to play is a 3D world most the time. The 3D level design level was made so you wouldn’t be force to deal with the problem unlike sonic generations.
I’m not sure if its been said yet, but doesn’t anyone think Lost World looks a whole lot like Sonic Xtreme?